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Author Topic: Betway  (Read 8290 times)
JoeBeevers
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« on: November 11, 2014, 05:09:55 PM »


Some of Betway's terms and conditions are just horrible. Clauses 4.6 / 5.6 and 15.3 are pretty bad but 16.3 and 16.6 are in a class of their own and we just laugh at 16.13

https://betway.com/terms/

Interesting thread on Betfair forum here with specific cases quoted:

http://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/30381289/betwaycom?origpost_id=542222907&pg=1

Many Google searches will show where funds and winnings have been 'confiscated'. They can even confiscate all your funds if they think you are a 'pro' (16.3 vii)

The important bits...


4.6 Dormant / Inactive Accounts

Betway will consider an account to be dormant / inactive after a period of 6 months after the last account login.

Applicable to Customers who are not residents of the UK: Should Betway consider an account to be dormant / inactive for a period exceeding 30 months, it will be de-activated / locked. If the account holds a balance, Betway shall attempt to contact you with a view to return any remaining funds. Should this not be possible, the remaining account balance (if any) shall be remitted to the Lotteries and Gaming Authorities (LGA) of Malta.

In addition, an administration fee of 5.00 Euros will be deducted from a dormant / inactive account on a monthly basis until such a time as the account is no longer in credit, has become active once again, or has been inactive for a period exceeding 30 months. The first fee will be charged at the end of the 6th month after the last account login was recorded.

Applicable to Customers who are residents of the UK: an administration fee of 5.00 GBP will be deducted from a dormant / inactive account on a monthly basis until such a time as the account is no longer in credit, has become active once again. The first fee will be charged at the end of the 6th month after the last account login was recorded.


5.6 Withdrawal Limits

Customers who withdraw a sum of money that is 5 times or more greater than their lifetime deposits at Betway will only be able to withdraw their winnings at a sum of 4,000€ (for Customers who are residents of the UK, 4,000 GBP) per week. The remaining amount will be placed back in the customer’s account until such time that they are eligible for a further withdrawal. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of Betway management. Note: Progressive Jackpot wins are exempt from this clause.

15.3 No arbitrage

You are strictly prohibited from utilising Betway and it systems to facilitate arbitrage through Currency Exchange transactions. Where Betway deems that you have deliberately used the systems for financial gain through arbitrage, any gains will be forfeited and deducted from your balance without warning or notification.

16.3 Termination of Account

Betway reserves the right to cancel your account for any reason whatsoever at any time without notifying you. Any balance in your account at the time of such a cancellation will be credited to your credit/debit card or financial account. We also reserve the right, at our sole discretion, to void any winnings and confiscate any balance in your Betway account in any of the following circumstances:

i. If you have more than one active account at Betway;
ii. If the name registered on your Betway account does not match the name on the financial/bank account and/or the credit/debit card(s) used to make deposits on the said Betway account;
iii. If you participate in a promotion and submit a withdrawal before fulfilling the requirements of that particular promotion;
iv. If you provide incorrect or misleading information while registering a Betway account;
v. If you are not of legal age to gamble;
vi. If you have allowed or permitted (intentionally or unintentionally) someone else to Participate using your Betway account;
vii. If you have played in a professional capacity, or in tandem with other Customer(s) as part of a club, group, etc., or placed bets or wagers in a coordinated manner with other Customer(s) involving the same (or materially the same) selections; in this instance we further reserve the       right, at our sole discretion, to restrict the total maximum pay out for the combined total of any such bets, to the equivalent of the Maximum Payout Limits permitted for a single Customer (as outlined in the Betway Rules). Betway is for sole use on an individual basis and for personal entertainment only.
viii. If Betway has received a “charge back” and/or a "return" notification via a deposit mechanism used on your account;
ix. If you are found colluding, cheating, money laundering or undertaking any kind of fraudulent activity at Betway;
x. If it is determined by Betway that you have employed or made use of a system (including machines, computers, software or other automated systems such as bots etc) designed specifically to defeat the gaming system or Betway;
xi. If you use our Website, Software or your account in bad faith;
xii. If you make statements that are sexually explicit or offensive while using our chat facility, this includes expressions of bigotry, racism, hatred or profanity;
OR
xiii. If Betway should become aware that you have played at any other Casino under any of the circumstances set out at (i) to (xii) above arise in respect of your use of any gambling services provided by other operators of such services.

16.6 Irregular Play

Before any withdrawals are processed, your Participation will be reviewed for any irregular betting patterns. In the interests of fair gaming; equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting, shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus playthrough requirement purposes. Other examples of irregular betting include, but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% of the bonus credited to your account before the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met. Should Betway deem that you have indulged in irregular game play, we reserve the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or to confiscate all of your winnings.


16.13 Explanation of Terms and Conditions

We consider these Terms and Conditions to be fair. Should you need any advice regarding these or any other part of our service, please contact Customer Service.

Please note that all correspondence and telephone calls may be recorded.

Last updated: 30/10/2014 at 14:30 GMT.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 05:14:52 PM by JoeBeevers » Logged
horseplayer
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2014, 05:22:37 PM »

shock horror Smiley

As discussed months ago in tft they are only heading one way and it is not up
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JoeBeevers
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2014, 05:25:18 PM »

Clause 16.3 (vii) could be used to confiscate all funds including winnings for anyone that has posted on FRED or bet on something recc'd on FRED.

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tikay
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 05:39:14 PM »

Clause 16.3 (vii) could be used to confiscate all funds including winnings for anyone that has posted on FRED or bet on something recc'd on FRED.



Think that's called a "catch-all" Clause!


vii. If you have played in a professional capacity, or in tandem with other Customer(s) as part of a club, group, etc., or placed bets or wagers in a coordinated manner with other Customer(s) involving the same (or materially the same) selections; in this instance we further reserve the       right, at our sole discretion, to restrict the total maximum pay out for the combined total of any such bets, to the equivalent of the Maximum Payout Limits permitted for a single Customer (as outlined in the Betway Rules). Betway is for sole use on an individual basis and for personal entertainment only.
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redarmi
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2014, 05:50:52 PM »

Almost every firm has a clause like 4.6.  Years ago when I first started in the game at BMU I was responsible for their first ever website and and wrote all of their rules and had a huge row with VC and the CEO when they asked me to include it.  It did my career there no good at all but I said then and still maintain that at best it takes advantage of punters and at worst is downright theft.
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2014, 06:01:47 PM »

does 16.6 (vii) mean if you punt based on a tipster in a daily rag you will get your loses confiscated?
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2014, 06:05:18 PM »

I emailed the manager link arbboy provided yesterday after my account details failed and my forgotten password link didn't work.

I sent this:
To: manager@betway.com
Subject: Regarding account closure

I had an account with Betway, and seem unable to login. I believe this means you have closed my account and failed to email me regarding the matter. I would like a full account history (deposits/withdrawals, and every bet) emailed to this address, and will be following up with an email to your licencing body about your frankly shocking business practices.

Regards, Adam.



"Dear Adam

Username: (Removed)

Thank you for contacting Betway.
As per our terms and conditions, Betway reserves the right to cancel your account at any time without notifying you.
All Betway accounts are reviewed on a regular basis and due to betting patterns on this account a decision was made to close it.
Please be aware that this decision was made at the highest level and consideration and will not be reversed.
Should you require any further assistance feel free to contact our friendly help desk.  We are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for your convenience.

Kind Regards,

Nicholas"

Adam Picken: Hello Tove
Adam Picken: I recently discovered you closed my betway account
Tove: Hi there Adam Picken
Tove: My name is Tove
Tove: How may I assist you today?
Adam Picken: I have no idea of when you did so, and have no idea about outstanding bets, what happened to my balance or anything
Adam Picken: I emailed a manager, and got told to contact live support when i requested a full history of bets and deposits/withdrawals
Tove: I will gladly have a look into your account and see what the reason could be.
Tove: Do you have a username?
Adam Picken: (Removed)
Adam Picken: I've been told it was closed due to the betting patterns
Adam Picken: that is fine, i couldn't bet much with you anyway
Adam Picken: but I have no way of finding out if you paid out my balance
Adam Picken: if my outstanding bets will be honoured
Adam Picken: etc
Tove: If you have bets still running they will be settled for you without any problems. Let me have a look at your withdraws, one moment please.
Adam Picken: Ok
Adam Picken: Could I get the approximate date of the last withdrawal to check it went through too?
Adam Picken: and a list of the outstanding bets
Adam Picken: Im not sure if there are any
Tove: I can see you still have 31.64 pounds on your account. You will be able to withdraw once your account has been activated,
Tove: You will need to send in documents to us to activate your account.
Tove: Please note that we require certain documentation from you to verify your account which will be reviewed by our operations department.
Tove: The following documents are needed:
Tove: A clear copy of your passport or driver’s license which will serve as photo identification.
Tove: Proof of address in the form of a utility bill or any other regular mail that is posted to you not older than 3 months.
Tove:
Adam Picken: What!?!?1
Adam Picken: you closed my account with money in it
Adam Picken: without an email
Adam Picken: and were just going to keep the balance?!
Adam Picken: this is crazy
Adam Picken: absolutely mental
Adam Picken: your now asking me to verify an account you already closed
Adam Picken: why didnt the manager mention this yesterday when I eamiled
Tove: You have been emailed yesterday about your account being locked Adam.
Adam Picken: NO
Adam Picken: i emailed asking for information
Adam Picken: and then you told me it was closed
Adam Picken: The managers email I used included absolutely no useful information
Adam Picken: but said contact live support if you have further queries
Adam Picken: Good job I did eh
Tove: I can see it must be confusing to you. Although, In terms and conditions it says we have the right to cancel your account at any time without notifying you.
Adam Picken: And keep my balance unless I enquire?
Adam Picken: even when I emailed your manager made no mention of it
Adam Picken: So i need to email verification documents to what email?
Adam Picken: And I want a full account history, every bet every deposit and every withdrawal
Adam Picken: Can I get that?
Adam Picken: hello?
Adam Picken: Tove?
Tove: Yes, I am here, I can send that through to you Adam. I can email it to you.
Adam Picken: Thanks a lot, I am sorry if I have taken my frustration out on you, I know you didn't write the policies and you have actually been useful, so I do apologise
Tove: you can send the documents to support@betway.com.
Tove: No problem Adam, I understand you too.
Adam Picken: OK great, is there anything else I should know?
Adam Picken: Just to confirm, proof of address/ID emailed to support@betway.com and you are sending the history to my email?
Tove: We are busy attending to your query, please hold for a minute. Thank you.
Tove: Yes, that is correct:)
Adam Picken: Great thanks a lot Tove, find some better employers and have a nice day!"

Seemed like a good lad overall, but what a horrible horrible firm. Its amazing to me the extent they've gone to here, its a distinct possibility they'd have got my £ if arbboy hadn't posted, because with being so limited I rarely check the account. So so sneaky, and the managers email is as per usual the most useless thing ever.

Got some money left in youwin, please tell me there aren't rumors about them too.
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Marky147
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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2014, 06:23:08 PM »

For balance, they did pay out on Niceofyoutotellme, in the Cambridgeshire Cheesy
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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2014, 06:24:30 PM »

Given who owns Betway now I'm not surprised they have zero interest in running an actual bookies - it'll just be an acquisition stream for the casino.
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redarmi
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2014, 06:25:13 PM »

does 16.6 (vii) mean if you punt based on a tipster in a daily rag you will get your loses confiscated?

In reality almost certainly not but the problem is that it could and if, for example, you followed one of the Betting Emporium tipsters, or put a bet on for a friend that was also getting the same bet elsewhere there is a good chance that they refuse to pay you on the basis of this.  As I mentioned yesterday most firms have some kind of rule that can work like this.  If I recall correctly Ladbrokes have a rule barring you from acting as a syndicate which could also be very loosely used but the key difference with Betway seems to be how they are applying it.  It is unreasonable and unfair and they do appear to be applying it just to get out of paying.  
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JoeBeevers
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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2014, 06:27:11 PM »

This was posted on the Betfair forum two days ago by holloway (an 11 year member):

I opened an account with them in July because I noticed they were 16/1 about Barrow winning the conference north, I tried for £100 at the 16/1 they layed me £20 and then knocked it straight into 11/1, I only tried tonight to log onto my account for the first time since placing the bet  after reading this thread and was unable to logon, so I phoned them to be told my account has been closed and my £20 stake will be refunded in the next few days, it' seems a coincidence that Barrow are top of the league and are now 11/10 to win it, I complained how can they close my account after having one bet that wasn't even settled and if I never contacted them tonight they probably wouldn't of even give me my money back, I think this is unacceptable and this firm shouldn't even be allowed to trade.

So four months after they take the bet they decide to cancel it and if the thread wasn't there he still would be in the dark that his account was closed.
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tikay
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2014, 06:30:40 PM »

This was posted on the Betfair forum two days ago by holloway (an 11 year member):

I opened an account with them in July because I noticed they were 16/1 about Barrow winning the conference north, I tried for £100 at the 16/1 they layed me £20 and then knocked it straight into 11/1, I only tried tonight to log onto my account for the first time since placing the bet  after reading this thread and was unable to logon, so I phoned them to be told my account has been closed and my £20 stake will be refunded in the next few days, it' seems a coincidence that Barrow are top of the league and are now 11/10 to win it, I complained how can they close my account after having one bet that wasn't even settled and if I never contacted them tonight they probably wouldn't of even give me my money back, I think this is unacceptable and this firm shouldn't even be allowed to trade.

So four months after they take the bet they decide to cancel it and if the thread wasn't there he still would be in the dark that his account was closed.

Oh my, now that is bang wrong, & completely indefensible.

I get very uncomfy when the mob get out on the streets with their pitchforks (see 'Stars), but even I can't defend this.

By definition, they could do that with ANY bet that looks like winning?
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2014, 06:34:48 PM »

I saw an advert for a motor vehicle on eBay today.

It was priced at £2953. The description said "No haggling, must make exact price, no test drives".
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 06:54:34 PM »

This was posted on the Betfair forum two days ago by holloway (an 11 year member):

I opened an account with them in July because I noticed they were 16/1 about Barrow winning the conference north, I tried for £100 at the 16/1 they layed me £20 and then knocked it straight into 11/1, I only tried tonight to log onto my account for the first time since placing the bet  after reading this thread and was unable to logon, so I phoned them to be told my account has been closed and my £20 stake will be refunded in the next few days, it' seems a coincidence that Barrow are top of the league and are now 11/10 to win it, I complained how can they close my account after having one bet that wasn't even settled and if I never contacted them tonight they probably wouldn't of even give me my money back, I think this is unacceptable and this firm shouldn't even be allowed to trade.

So four months after they take the bet they decide to cancel it and if the thread wasn't there he still would be in the dark that his account was closed.

Oh my, now that is bang wrong, & completely indefensible.

I get very uncomfy when the mob get out on the streets with their pitchforks (see 'Stars), but even I can't defend this.

By definition, they could do that with ANY bet that looks like winning?

As someone that has worked on both sides of the counter I generally feel a bit uncomfortable with a lot of the anti bookmaker stuff.  As a bookmaker you have to protect your profits and sometimes that involves making decisions which promote your self interest over that of some punters but there is also a huge responsibility on the part of operators to protect the integrity of the "game" overall and doing some of the stuff that firms like Betway do isn't only bad for punters it is actually intrinsically bad for other operators too but the problem is that nobody will stand up and put their head above the paraphet.  There have been attempts in the past to organise a punters association and, like the poker players associations, they generally fail through apathy and most fo the operators are too myopic to get involved.
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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 07:17:46 PM »

How can the gambling authorities allow a t&c that states they can close accounts without informing the account holders. Do they bother to check these things? Some of these rules are really really scary and the post about Barrow is just crazy.
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