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Author Topic: Paris horror attack  (Read 33576 times)
david3103
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« Reply #240 on: January 15, 2015, 03:42:19 PM »

"Hate(ful) speech if something someone finds offensive.

Free(dom of) speech if the idea that in a proper free society, dissent must be allowed, even if it offends you."

So all speech is free, until someone takes offense at which point it becomes hateful speech.

So the distinction is completely at the discretion of whoever gets offended, not matter how unreasonable that offense may be?

Voltaire may not have been the origin of that old saw about defending people's right to say stuff we don't like, but he did say this

 “The supposed right of intolerance is absurd and barbaric. It is the right of the tiger; nay, it is far worse, for tigers do but tear in order to have food, while we rend each other for paragraphs.”


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« Reply #241 on: January 15, 2015, 04:17:43 PM »

I saw an episode of Top Gear where they drove through the bible belt in the USA with slogans that mocked Christianity painted on the sides of their cars. They almost got lynched and no one was surprised.

You do know that Top Gear is very comprehensively scripted?


Noooo!!!!

Say it isn't so.
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kinboshi
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« Reply #242 on: January 15, 2015, 04:33:07 PM »

"Hate(ful) speech if something someone finds offensive.

Free(dom of) speech if the idea that in a proper free society, dissent must be allowed, even if it offends you."

So all speech is free, until someone takes offense at which point it becomes hateful speech.

So the distinction is completely at the discretion of whoever gets offended, not matter how unreasonable that offense may be?

Voltaire may not have been the origin of that old saw about defending people's right to say stuff we don't like, but he did say this

 “The supposed right of intolerance is absurd and barbaric. It is the right of the tiger; nay, it is far worse, for tigers do but tear in order to have food, while we rend each other for paragraphs.”




I discovered only the other day that he was also known for being anti-Semitic, which is interesting considering what he said and how often he's quoted in these circumstances.
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kinboshi
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« Reply #243 on: January 15, 2015, 04:41:42 PM »

The Pope demanding people's freedom of speech be curtailed when it concern religions.  I find his comments offensive and his church's protection of child-raping priests abhorrent.  But I'm not going to "punch him in the face" for it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/15/pope-francis-limits-to-freedom-of-expression

I will post a link to this though:

[Very NSFW & very much not for easily-offended catholics]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRDfut2Vx0
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« Reply #244 on: January 15, 2015, 04:49:45 PM »

The Pope demanding people's freedom of speech be curtailed when it concern religions.  I find his comments offensive and his church's protection of child-raping priests abhorrent.  But I'm not going to "punch him in the face" for it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/15/pope-francis-limits-to-freedom-of-expression

I will post a link to this though:

[Very NSFW & very much not for easily-offended catholics]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRDfut2Vx0


The two issues are separate though.

Absolutely the protection of paedo priests has been disgusting and obscene. The individuals who have done this should be outted.

But to blame the Catholic religion for the behaviour of some of its adherents is as much a mistake as it is to blame Islam for the Paris attacks IMO
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david3103
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« Reply #245 on: January 15, 2015, 04:52:49 PM »

"Hate(ful) speech if something someone finds offensive.

Free(dom of) speech if the idea that in a proper free society, dissent must be allowed, even if it offends you."

So all speech is free, until someone takes offense at which point it becomes hateful speech.

So the distinction is completely at the discretion of whoever gets offended, not matter how unreasonable that offense may be?

Voltaire may not have been the origin of that old saw about defending people's right to say stuff we don't like, but he did say this

 “The supposed right of intolerance is absurd and barbaric. It is the right of the tiger; nay, it is far worse, for tigers do but tear in order to have food, while we rend each other for paragraphs.”




I discovered only the other day that he was also known for being anti-Semitic, which is interesting considering what he said and how often he's quoted in these circumstances.

he was anti a lot of other things as well, and lived in far less enlightened times than these.



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« Reply #246 on: January 15, 2015, 04:54:12 PM »

"Hate(ful) speech if something someone finds offensive.

Free(dom of) speech if the idea that in a proper free society, dissent must be allowed, even if it offends you."

So all speech is free, until someone takes offense at which point it becomes hateful speech.

So the distinction is completely at the discretion of whoever gets offended, not matter how unreasonable that offense may be?

Voltaire may not have been the origin of that old saw about defending people's right to say stuff we don't like, but he did say this

 “The supposed right of intolerance is absurd and barbaric. It is the right of the tiger; nay, it is far worse, for tigers do but tear in order to have food, while we rend each other for paragraphs.”




I discovered only the other day that he was also known for being anti-Semitic, which is interesting considering what he said and how often he's quoted in these circumstances.

he was anti a lot of other things as well, and lived in far less enlightened times than these.


I'm not sure how enlightened these times are.
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« Reply #247 on: January 15, 2015, 04:55:12 PM »

The Pope demanding people's freedom of speech be curtailed when it concern religions.  I find his comments offensive and his church's protection of child-raping priests abhorrent.  But I'm not going to "punch him in the face" for it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/15/pope-francis-limits-to-freedom-of-expression

I will post a link to this though:

[Very NSFW & very much not for easily-offended catholics]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRDfut2Vx0


The two issues are separate though.

Absolutely the protection of paedo priests has been disgusting and obscene. The individuals who have done this should be outted.

But to blame the Catholic religion for the behaviour of some of its adherents is as much a mistake as it is to blame Islam for the Paris attacks IMO

I was arguing about him saying that freedom of speech should be restricted when it comes to religion. 


Anyway, all Muslims are as bad as each other obviously, especially the immigrant ones who come over and take people's jobs (in a Jewish supermarket as well, the audacity!), and save people's lives:

http://mashable.com/2015/01/15/paris-attack-hero-french-citizenship/
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« Reply #248 on: January 15, 2015, 08:17:41 PM »

I saw an episode of Top Gear where they drove through the bible belt in the USA with slogans that mocked Christianity painted on the sides of their cars. They almost got lynched and no one was surprised.

Missed opportunity.
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BangBang
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« Reply #249 on: January 15, 2015, 09:55:56 PM »

In 1946 India, tensions between the majority Hindus and Muslims were at an all time high, a scholar named Durga Dass (Born a Hindu and became an Atheist),  wrote:

I’ve translated this from Hindi to English so some of the plural and masculine phrases may not make sense..

The Hindus band their Agneyastras and the muslims their Scimtars, the world watches as these brothers and sisters fight for not what is right but for their man made religions.  Religion is everything in India we are not united by our land but by a religious beliefs.  Ghandhi gives speeches impassioned by his love for his native India and it’s indigenous people yet he fails to realize that what he is preaching is an anti Muslim/Christian India.  

We will be divided by our religions, Muslims in the North, Hindus in the south there will be no room for other religions over the virtual borders that will be created.  Sectarianism or racism it’s all the same once you divide you can not unify, this will have a long standing impact for generations and will create extremist on both sides, extremist Hindus and extremist Muslims. The world will feel the wrath; created by those who are adamant in creating this divide and in years to come when the hatred pours through the hearts of those effected by the actions and speeches of few, will the world realize that for harmony to exist religion must be compromised”


The part where he comments “the world will feel the wrath in years to come” is the most interesting, the actions of a minority today will have a lasting and snowballing effect on our future generations. Ask an Indian what he feels about Pakistan and vise versa, then ask the same people if they would mind their daughters marrying the opposite

Also for harmony to exist religion must be compromised, Kinboshi made a great point

“The thing is that religion can perpetuate out-dated practices that are retained in a large part because of the presence of the religion in that area.”
This completely.  The world needs to move on, not forget our beliefs but culturally diffuse…

------------------------------

The way the news is reported will have a dramatic effect on the way we treat one another in the future.  Woodseys initial post is evidence of this already and to be completely fair to Woodsey we can’t blame him, our opinions are based on the things that we see, the news we read or discuss with others who read, hear and see the same things.

I’ve seen a lot of comments saying “People who feel a certain way about this have a low IQ” which is BS not everyone has the time to do their own research and come to a conclusion based on evaluated evidence, so their opinions are based on the evidence that is presented to them, again which is normally biased.

Freedom of expression needs to be defended…

« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 09:58:18 PM by BangBang » Logged

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« Reply #250 on: January 16, 2015, 08:14:40 PM »

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Charlie-Hebdo-Magazine-Special-Edition-January-14-2015-UK-Version-/301486377301?pt=UK_Books_Comics_Magazines_European_Comics_ET&hash=item4631fd0955

feel the bidding might be dominated by fake accounts Smiley
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david3103
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« Reply #251 on: January 23, 2015, 03:20:16 AM »

Just came across this from the Scott Adams blog pages.

But I won’t be getting humorous about the founder of Islam because I would see that as an insult to Muslims who were minding their own business. I’m not a believer, but I’ve evolved to be pro-religion because I observe religion to be a functional interface to a reality our brains aren’t designed to understand.

For the uninitiated, he's a very successful cartoonist.
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AndrewT
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« Reply #252 on: January 23, 2015, 10:32:44 AM »

But I won’t be getting humorous about the founder of Islam because I would see that as an insult to Muslims who were minding their own business. I’m not a believer, but I’ve evolved to be pro-religion because I observe religion to be a functional interface to a reality our brains aren’t designed to understand.

There's no way Dogbert would ever say anything like this.
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david3103
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« Reply #253 on: January 23, 2015, 11:17:16 AM »

But I won’t be getting humorous about the founder of Islam because I would see that as an insult to Muslims who were minding their own business. I’m not a believer, but I’ve evolved to be pro-religion because I observe religion to be a functional interface to a reality our brains aren’t designed to understand.

There's no way Dogbert would ever say anything like this.

absolutely not Smiley
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« Reply #254 on: November 13, 2015, 11:08:23 PM »

It's happening again and it looks like it is going to be a hundred times worse.

Three locations, suicide bombers, 40 confirmed dead already, 100 people taken hostage in a concert hall.

Jesus christ, truly truly sickening.

I feel this is going to be a watershed moment in 'the war on terror'.
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