Full Tilt taking an interesting direction.... new announcement.

[ActionDanS]

Haven't seen it discussed in here yet, but earlier this week FTP announce some changes which I feel are pretty exciting. Announcement here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=45894908&postcount=3224

The most noteworthy point here is that they offer RAKE FREE satellites to their mtt's. This is inspired by the fact that their satty traffice as is is virtually non-existent, and lack of qualifiers leads to the reg heavy fields we're used to seeing.

I think it's worth getting the word out there personally and hope they do a good job of letting people know.

I for one will be putting in more volume on there.

[Ironside]

Only the sng sats are rake free but nice idea to bring in traffic

[TightEnd]

Cash game traffic drops by 20% at Full Tilt following its sweeping changes aimed at attracting recreational players. http://ow.ly/Qz02C

[rfgqqabc]

Cash game traffic drops by 20% at Full Tilt following its sweeping changes aimed at attracting recreational players. http://ow.ly/Qz02C

Bit misleading as I'd imagine this is all accounted for by the lack of heads up. Probably a bit late for full tilt, it's really hard to recover from all the bad press.

They tried rake free sats for a while afaik, not sure it helped the fields though.

[arbboy]

Why can't all online poker games be anonymous like they are on bodog?  All my betfair transactions are anonymous.  I have no idea whether i am taking bets from Tony Bloom or a drunk degen.

[doubleup]

Why can't all online poker games be anonymous like they are on bodog?  All my betfair transactions are anonymous.  I have no idea whether i am taking bets from Tony Bloom or a drunk degen.

A) Because making decisions based on an opponents tendancies is part of the game

B) Because there are cheats all over the place and catching them is only possible because players monitor the games.  Sites simply aren't good enough at that job.

[arbboy]

Why can't all online poker games be anonymous like they are on bodog?  All my betfair transactions are anonymous.  I have no idea whether i am taking bets from Tony Bloom or a drunk degen.

A) Because making decisions based on an opponents tendancies is part of the game

B) Because there are cheats all over the place and catching them is only possible because players monitor the games.  Sites simply aren't good enough at that job.

a) bookmaking decisions are also based on an opponent's tendancies as well it could be argued (ie whether they win or lose long term ev wise/how likely they are to chase/thrown in 'mug' bets etc etc depends on what your betting limits are on every site other than betfair).  I would be far more likely to accommodate a customer asking for a grand on the last dog race of the day if i knew he was on tilt/could tilt/was losing on the day and was chasing/had bet with me all day already on numerous other races/matches.  The fact i don't know any of this information will slow me down potentially in accommodating a customer.  It also makes me less of a bum hunter because i have to make decisions based on less information.  This is what poker sites want isn't it?  Hence my suggestion.

b) i appreciate the 2nd point but it is a pretty sad state of affairs that players are left to police their own games given how much rake these sites has made risk free over the years.

Why have bodog made this decision then if your 2 points are correct?  They must assume it will be good for the game long term?

[DaveShoelace]

Has anyone ever actually explained to arrboy that poker and sportsbetting are different things?

[arbboy]

Has anyone ever actually explained to arrboy that poker and sportsbetting are different things?

They are both games of skill with an element of luck attached which are both subject to imperfect information where customers wager money.  They seem pretty similar to me.

[rfgqqabc]

If by good for the game then you mean there own personal bottom line then perhaps you are right. Having just seen the scale of the plo bot ring I think the last thing anyone wants is anonymous tables. I hear the bovoda games are excellent though so maybe they are on to something.

There are pretty huge differences between poker and sports betting. The betting sites take action and the poker sites just facilitate it. For a long time poker players have been naive, quite possibly lulled into a false sense of security by the Schainberg  (sp I'm sure and on my phone so can't google).

They wanted poker to be beatable and fair, Amaya seem intent on making the games as close to unbeatable as possible. A very short term view as once people  realise this there will be very little to promote poker, and I can't ever imagine a boom taking off without people being able to win. But when your previous business deals have gone so poorly and some finance companies offer you the opportunity of a lifetime to milk an insanely profitable company dry as quickly as possible to pay for your debts then this is what will happen.

Stars had had reports late last year by several regulars who named some of the bots and some innocent players. However, upper level management in the security department have a huge agency problem. Can you imagine going to your boss and telling them there has been a Russian bot ring, some of whom played 200 plo for the same 6 hours everyday for the best part of a year. A few literally never moved up. I think you'd probably get fired so it's no surprise they didn't come forward. I have no clue what to do as virtually every business has these sorts of problems. No one thinks long term. Look at so many football managers, ceos  etc. They are pressurised into needing short term results.

Fwiw I imagine the bots were pretty decent  security wise and most were much harder to catch than the 200 plo zo crusher.

P.s bet fair is the best comparison but it is also static (an offer goes out) whereas poker is much more dynamic (reads can change hand by hand)

[POWWWWWWWW]

I don't really see how all tables becoming anonymous would be beneficial to recreational players anyway. It would force all the current regs to get better as they would have to play more hands vs each other, pushing everyone over even more to a more GTO style. The skill level between fish and regs would become wider as fish are never going to improve at a rate close to the regs. Sure you wouldn't get 50 deep waiting lists for a fish but you would still get a fish on a table with 5 really good regs. The same would be true at every table a fish decided to sit. And a fish is easily identifiable as a fish even if you haven't got PTR or tons of hands on them. They've got glaring leaks that are instantly identifiable to anyone paying attention. Fish couldn't be targeted per say but you still would never have a fish cashing any money out ever. It would be one major step to full ring 10bb anonymous push or fold which is the sites absolute dream as it's impossible for anyone to make any money.

 Bodog works because anyone who has played on an American facing site knows that players in America are wayyyyyyyy  behind the curve of everyone else, meaning the regs are closer to skill level to the fish. Plus the fact that you can only play in America and no internet pros exist in America that would be close to decent regs from the current pool we are discussing. Watch Galfonds RIO vid on Bodog. It's effortless because everyone is sooooooo bad.

Everyone who isn't a fish now is so good at poker compared to the fish that there really isn't a way to protect the fish. They are always going to lose their money and at a fast rate because they are playing a game vs someone much better and hard working at the game than they are.

It's up to the sites to promote games that haven't been close to "solved" yet, as there are many forms or poker and they are all super fun and challenging to play. But the problem is that NL is perfect for fish because they think they are good at it, or know how to play, it's easy to understand and not too gambly.

[SuperJez]

I would be far more likely to accommodate a customer asking for a grand on the last dog race of the day if i knew he was on tilt/could tilt/was losing on the day and was chasing/had bet with me all day already on numerous other races/matches.

It also makes me less of a bum hunter

I think only accepting a grand on a dog race if a fairly unknown customer fitted the profile you say means you are precisely bumhunting dog bettors.