Cash Game Hand

[WellChief]

Ok there's no hand history here, but I can give you full information on the hand..

I am sat in the small blind with .   I call the $3/$6 blinds after the button has limped.  We both have equal stacks of approx $500.  The flop came .   

I check, big blind and button also check. 

Turn comes .  I check, big blind checks and button now bets $15 into $17.25 pot.  I reraise to $45, big blind folds and the button flat calls.

River comes .  I bet out $35 into $105 pot (I don't actually like this bet, what do you lot think?).  Button thought for a moment then raised to $195.  So it was $160 to call.

So final board is . 

Do you call on the river here?   A bit of analysis and reasoning for your decision would be good.  I'll post what I thought at the time and what happened later.

[WellChief]

I've actually changed my mind on the above board it was not the , which makes a big difference I think.

[jezza777]

Your bet on the end looks like a steal bet to me so the button could read it as such and you could be ahead. I think you have to bet out on the turn. Although the check raise is a good move it would be a disaster here to give a free card to the flush draw. If he decided to reraise you here with his flush draw you can move in and perhaps get a fold or have him drawing. I think I pay off the reraise. Although it looks like he can only make this move with KQ D/KXD he may well be capable of an aggressive move if he doesnt put you on the flush or even think he is ahead if he has 2 pair.

[doubleup]

I would really like to know a bit more about the button here.  Is he a winning player?  Does he normally bet the full pot on the river? 

I don't really like weak bets like yours on the river, they are not much different from a check. 

My first thought is to fold but if the button has a flush, wouldn't he have bet the flop?  What would he call your turn chkraise with? - Qxd looks very likely. So, I think I'm probably folding unless I have info that button bluffs a lot.

[mystery721]

call, u are winning, if the button has a diamond flush then he woulda bet the flop, it has been checked to him, he has a flush draw, he would bet here. your bet was so weak hes probably just trying to move u off the pot.

[doubleup]

call, u are winning, if the button has a diamond flush then he woulda bet the flop, it has been checked to him, he has a flush draw, he would bet here. your bet was so weak hes probably just trying to move u off the pot.

That is the thing that's troubling me. It is possible that he didn't bet the flop because of the ace.  Not raising preflop makes it difficult for him to represent high cards.

[mystery721]

he knows none of u have the ace, or else u would bet out. if uve manage to limp in with a raggy ace 3 way and an ace pops off the flop, ur not gonna give a free card to anyone with a flush draw, ur gonna bet out and see where u are.  The button doesnt need to reprosent an ace here, there has been no raise preflop an ace has came and u both checked it,   he,s gonna bet out with a king here. Anything is possible in poker, anything. There is so many people playing the way the books tell u to play, that alot of players are now doing the total opposite of the books and playing trash hands. There isnt a book in the world that tells you to reraise a twice raised pot with 4 7, but players are doing it. They see the way a player is playing and think "hey this guy plays like every poker book tells him to play, if i reraise this pot that has already been raised and reraised, hes gonna think ive got  A A, (coz the books tell him i have A A) when really ive just took a nice preflop pot with with rags, people are changing their game every single day, one month i play solid, nothing but premuim hands, the nxt month ill call raises all day long with 2 8 and 4 7 and 9 4, now and again (maybe 1 in every 100 tourneys) i go all in every hand until ive tripled or quadrupled my stack. This is an awful way to play a tourney, but its mixing it up abit. If your playing with the same players constantly, then u have to keep mixing/changing ur game, or else u become transparent. If your playing different players every single day, very rarly seeing the same player twice, then u dont need to mix it up coz noone knows you. Anyway im gonna stop rambling on, coz im boring myself (one too many illegal substances last night i think) Anyway hope u can understand some of wot ive written

[ifm]

Mystery i have to say that is an excellent post, very good.

[mystery721]

cheerz m8! wasnt expecting any possitive back from that.

[doubleup]

cheerz m8! wasnt expecting any possitive back from that.

This is very difficult without knowing the player, but if he doesn't have a flush draw - what does he call the turn chk raise with?  I suppose QT is a possibility. 

I still think I would fold, if he makes this kind of bluff routinely I will get his money eventually

[WellChief]

Ok thanks for the replies guys.  I folded after timing out and he said good fold.  I said hmmm, then he said he had set of fours.   I think the key to the hand is the flop.  If he is going to bet a flush draw he'd surely do it here and not wait till the turn.  If I had 10 seconds more to make the decision I know Id have made the call.

The funny is from his comments afterwards its clear he thought he must have been ahead, a pretty large raise with the draws out there.  I've got a note on him that he overplays hands now as he continued to make plays like this.

[Alex Scott]

River comes ....So final board is . I bet out $35 into $105 pot (I don't actually like this bet, what do you lot think?).  Button thought for a moment then raised to $195.  So it was $160 to call.

Its a tough one. I know that in the games I play, you usually aren't getting called by two pair or a set (or worse) when you bet the river, so a value bet is pointless - you're better off checking and trying to pick off a bluff. But players who would pay you off with A-Q on this board definitely do exist, so you have to judge who you're playing against and act accordingly.

By the way, the raise on the end is suspiciously large. I would certainly think about calling, but it would all depend on what I knew about my opponent's playing style.

[WellChief]

Alex, I assume you are the same guy who posts on the UKSPC boards.  If so, welcome, you're analysis will definitely be appreciated here.

As regards the overly large bet at the end, the guy just overplays his hands.  I have won a lot of money off this player since this post.

[Alex Scott]

Alex, I assume you are the same guy who posts on the UKSPC boards.  If so, welcome, you're analysis will definitely be appreciated here.

Yes, that's me. Thankyou for the welcome.

I don't post at UKSP very much anymore, since I'm no longer a student, and quite frankly there are a bunch of twats on the forum that make it an unpleasant place for everyone. I look forward to some thoroughly geeky discussion here :-)