£1/2 live cash awkward flop spot

[cambridgealex]

Pretty tight passive 1/2 game, not been here long.

Raise £8 mp two callers from hijack and button.

im about to bet when hijack bets £15 out of turn, so I check, £15 stays, btn makes it £35. hijack playing £150, btn £600.

Flop 3bet looks really strong here, and in a tight passive game, it's a genuine concern that a 3bet will fold out all better hands.

Calling has obvious downsides.

[stato_1]

You cover the £600?

Think I want to call. Gives HJ a chance to shove some random T that he doesnt want to fold and its pretty obvious which turn cards are bad for us so should be pretty easy to play down the streets. I think we can table the problem of bad cards killing our action for now as the only hands we beat that this applies to really are 73 and T3 which are unlikely to be there due to preflop action. A bare T isn't going to give us much action vs a flop 3bet here anyway.

[SuuPRlim]

Yh you do have a few problems here.

Biggest issue with calling is the relative position you're in I can see this hand getting checked round on the turn a fair bit, the HJ has a shitty hand but its only £20 on the flop, the BTN had a good hand to give the HJ action at £150 stack but now you're in the pot and there's that really messy Multi-way SPR situation so he decides to take a river card. You don't really wanna give 4 cards two chances to outdraw you for (basically) nothing on a far from locked down board.

I do think though that you get compensated for this^^^ by the fact you do get quite a bit of info on the turn from the BTNs action, if he bets and what he bets - can get a feel for if he's trying to bet you in or out of the pot. Also I can't think of any size to raise to that doesn't create hand vs range issues for you, if you raise to an amount you can raise back over a £150 shove from the HJ and he calls the £150 I'd be fucking terrified at this point (if he's paying attention ofc!) and most of the value stuff he was giving action to the HJ with will fold and you beat very little of the stuff that doesn't. That leaves multi/draws and the NFD which is a bit tilting for 300bigs.

If you make it £150 yourself so he knows he doesn't have to put £600 in here you might get him flicking it in with some weaker stuff, although i think is more likely to call there than AT, and the same worry applies as above.

Could consider calling then leading the turn? Again no obvious sizing and we give him the opportunity to see what the HJ does vs our bet which is quite useful info and also him being able to close the action isn't ideal, and we can't really set up a particularly comfortable river SPR either speshly when we not sure if its going 2 or 3 way.

So yeah I'd call, lesser of two evils although part of me really just wants to raise to try keep things a bit simpler. I am assuming ofc the BTN is good player right?

Suppose we go to the turn for 1 bet on the flop and the BTN bets again when checked too, what's your line on very bad cards (big clubs) iffy cards (high straighty cards) and then bricks (that don't make us a house)
?

[muckthenuts]

Quite specific but i really think the btn has either AT or KT lol. If you call i like the idea of leading turns that seem safe for you (no clubs, J or 6 being the clear ones). I think it's likely you'll get another street from at least one of the players this way if they hold a T as they'll probably find the line a bit confusing.

3betting flop unlikely to be a bluff due to HJ's stacksize so there's an obvious downside there. If you do 3b flop HJ might decide to gamble with a draw if he's got one, but if you flat flop he might decide to shove after you anyway.

[Rexas]

Lol this is awkward. Kinda agree with the above stuff that calling is probably the lesser of a few bad options, I don't think anything is particularly good at this point. Flatting does make the turn fun though, I like the idea of leading cards that are good for us to avoid the issue of making it easy for the guy IP to see two cards for whatever price he wants. We also have the added "bonus" of seeing what the £150 stack is going to do if we flat flop, which could make everything a bit simpler.

I certainly don't think we can pin btn's range down to just AT/KT, these certainly aren't gonna raise all the time and for sure he can have loads of other stuff too (all sets, combo draws, nut flush draws, maybe JJ, maybe some other weird stuff that's raising to get HU with the smaller stack and for a little bit of protection). But yh, think (assuming we flat and it goes two/three way to the turn) leading brick turns would be cool, check folding flush cards to any reasonable bet seems best, straight cards likely to be a check call/lead fold type thing I guess.

If we decide to 3b flop there are gonna be some sizing issues given the short stack obviously, and we're gonna make it very hard for either player to continue without a hand that either has us crushed or is in very good shape, whereas calling is annoying given our position and the board texture but I think being open to donking turn might mitigate that problem.

Tl:dr what dave and stato said :p

[rfgqqabc]

Did the button realise you were about to bet because that explains his sizing to some degree. It's gross, think I call.

[cambridgealex]

Some great points, can't say I disagree with anything said so far.

Btn not presumed good player btw, but can't say he seems bad. I think his sizing is weighted against sets though, and more towards AT KT like Adam (i think) said.

I like calling and leading good turns, but can only count about 12 good turns. So I thought about clicking to 70?

[pleno1]

How bad would folding be?

[cambridgealex]

How bad would folding be?

Pretty bad

[pleno1]

Assuming hj doesn't fold if we call I wonder what our avaerage equity is on the river 3 way. Will
Try to look at it later. Need more info on button I think.
Why do we assume
He's raising kt/at?

[Oxford_HRV]

Think OP dissuades choosing to 3b too much, it has good merit. This board is too coordinated for me to be playing underrepped.

£75

[cambridgealex]

Assuming hj doesn't fold if we call I wonder what our avaerage equity is on the river 3 way. Will
Try to look at it later. Need more info on button I think.
Why do we assume
He's raising kt/at?

Well Im ruling out pure bluffs, heavily discounting semi bluffs, discounting sets and two pair somewhat due to sizing, so left with one pair value hands, of which AT and KT are the strongest and most likely. JJ possible in these games too.

[mulhuzz]

Think like  or maybe even  gonna show with some frequency ?

[muckthenuts]

Result? Found this hand quite interesting.

[cambridgealex]

I 3bet flop and both folded. Went too big (100 iirc). Think call/donk good turns is best or 3bet small to 70-80.