Another 25/25 exit hand because the last PHA attempts went so well

[Tal]

Day 1, level 8. Blinds 400/800/75. Eight handed. I have c.35k and am in the big blind.

UTG shoves his 4,900 in (this probably isn't an awfully narrow range). Folded round to SB. SB is a tricky local player and by this I mean capable of anything, even though he generally has a level of discipline and has some level of equity when the cards are on their back. He has not long won a pot where he called 3bet pre and c/raised twice on something like 75QA and got AT to fold, before showing KK. Ace Ten man wasn't impressed, but that gives you an idea of what I mean when I say tricky.

Anyway, back to my hand. SB thinks for a while and calls the 4,900 after a think. He has about 45k total.

I look down at  

I believe calling is correct, getting a little over 3/1. Dry side pot.

Flop  

SB checks.

I bet 4k. Want to protect my hand. I have flatted with KJ and the Jack high flop is great, but wet.

He now check-raises to 10k (a 5k and five 1k chips, despite having other 5k chips available, if that's of any interest).

My thinking now goes:
- He isn't likely to have the same hand as me, as a bare jack would lead and the Jack of hearts is out there.
- same goes for slowplayed big pairs.
- He might well have expected me to bet more than 4k - half or more of the side pot - and then he can shove.
- in which case, with such a wet board, where he can easily have two pictures or suited cards, he has a lot of draws in the range of hands he would raise with
- He likely isn't doing this with nothing, as he knows I won't have nothing
- There's c.30k in the middle after his raise and I can shove for c.20k more, where he might be able to fold some of his draws

So, I shove and he calls with  

This did not go well.

Should I have done anything differently?

Over to you.

[Plucks up courage, breathes deeply and presses Post]

[pleno1]

what kind of hands do you think he's doing it with? kq/aq? or what did you expect?

[George2Loose]

I would most likely check call this flop and assess. When someone is all in players generally tend to play straightforward due to the dry side pot. If he checks back flop bet most turns

[Tal]

what kind of hands do you think he's doing it with? kq/aq? or what did you expect?

Ok, hands like:

T8
T9
76
KQhh
Ax hh

Won't be small pairs and won't be big pairs, including sets.

That's essentially what I decided at the table. Stacks and pot seem ideal for me to play the hand as I did.

Happy to be educated otherwise.

[George2Loose]

I also think having shown a bluff he's very unlikely to be bluff raising

[Tal]

I would most likely check call this flop and assess. When someone is all in players generally tend to play straightforward due to the dry side pot. If he checks back flop bet most turns

If I do that, there's 25k in the middle and there are a lot of horrible turn cards, where I could be shoving dead.

Am I not better off taking some fold equity by 3betshoving?

[George2Loose]

Sorry for positions mixed up. Think betting is fine but it's pretty gross when he raises. Still would
Probably check back for pot control/deception on this texture (esp live where I'm trying to small ball)

[Tal]

I also think having shown a bluff he's very unlikely to be bluff raising

That is interesting. Chap is good at putting such things out of his mind and I'm not entirely sure he thought he was bluffing at the time. It is a worthy point, though. Check raising again is obviously noteworthy.

In my hand, I don't believe he is bluffing at all. I believe he has something of that flop and, if the chips go in now, I will be ahead but needing to dodge.

[George2Loose]

I'm not a fan of his call pre btw. Seems pretty thin from sb

[George2Loose]

Well he's not bluffing in your hand cos he has the nuts- am I missing something? Or do u mean in general?

[Tal]

Well he's not bluffing in your hand cos he has the nuts- am I missing something? Or do u mean in general?

Rubs.



No, I mean in general. That's my perception of the sort of hand he has when he c/raises the flop.

[George2Loose]

what kind of hands do you think he's doing it with? kq/aq? or what did you expect?

Ok, hands like:

T8
T9
76
KQhh
Ax hh

Won't be small pairs and won't be big pairs, including sets.

That's essentially what I decided at the table. Stacks and pot seem ideal for me to play the hand as I did.

Happy to be educated otherwise.

I think u will never see 67 in this spot. He surely folds this pre and doesn't c/raise with it when he could be dead to the top end and also has hearts to worry about.

The rest of the hands you listed you're not in great shape against

[pleno1]

what kind of hands do you think he's doing it with? kq/aq? or what did you expect?

Ok, hands like:

T8
T9
76
KQhh
Ax hh

Won't be small pairs and won't be big pairs, including sets.

That's essentially what I decided at the table. Stacks and pot seem ideal for me to play the hand as I did.

Happy to be educated otherwise.

why do you think he's calling t8/t9/76 pre?

[Pinchop73]

I mean obviously his peel pre is terrible but then he prob knew he was going to flop 5 in a row vs top pair.

Does sound like the type of guy you'd be happy to stack off to tho. But we should start doing this by calling flop and hope he has TT/JT/JQ/KQ/AQ/AK. Shoving doesn't achieve a great deal (he may fold the previously aformentioned range some amount of the time which is obv bad) other than getting it in badly vs his 88/99/QT/J8/J9/AJ/JJ/QQ/KK/AA

Also like a check behind otf due to stack to pot ratio, would be pretty crap to scare his worse hands off when he's reasonably likely to start betting those hands on the turn and river

[pleno1]

and finally, what do you think your range looks like?