The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[AndrewT]

People are still wearing poppies.

Isn't Remembrance Sunday the cutoff usually?

It's the 11th Nov which is the cut off, which is a bit odd now as I always thought that was specifically for WW1, and everyone who fought in that is dead now.

[Marky147]

Q of the day

Do you think your life is better because you take an interest in politics?

I find it fascinating and empowering to learn more about politics. In particular I love learning about something that helps you see through media rhetoric and political spin, and see how life really is compared to how it is presented to us.

But wow, it is depressing sometimes. It can make you feel totally helpless at times, particularly when it is something so systemtic it may never change.

I can't decide whether I'd be better off just looking a funny dog memes on the internet instead.

I wouldn't say i take a great interest in politics, and the only thing I follow religiously, is this thread, but I do watch Question Time most weeks now.

I tried watching PMs questions last week, but had to turn it off, as that really did piss me off.

Try not to get too invested, as I imagine I would probably end up quite depressed, like you say.

[arbboy]

Q of the day

Do you think your life is better because you take an interest in politics?

I find it fascinating and empowering to learn more about politics. In particular I love learning about something that helps you see through media rhetoric and political spin, and see how life really is compared to how it is presented to us.

But wow, it is depressing sometimes. It can make you feel totally helpless at times, particularly when it is something so systemtic it may never change.

I can't decide whether I'd be better off just looking a funny dog memes on the internet instead.

I waste numerous hours thinking and discussing politics every week.  It does nothing to my life but costs me energy and wages wasting time talking about it.  Nothing in my life ever changes from talking/thinking about it.  From now on i think i would be a lot better off just getting on with life and ignoring it.

[david3103]

Q of the day

Do you think your life is better because you take an interest in politics?

I find it fascinating and empowering to learn more about politics. In particular I love learning about something that helps you see through media rhetoric and political spin, and see how life really is compared to how it is presented to us.

But wow, it is depressing sometimes. It can make you feel totally helpless at times, particularly when it is something so systemtic it may never change.

I can't decide whether I'd be better off just looking a funny dog memes on the internet instead.

I waste numerous hours thinking and discussing politics every week.  It does nothing to my life but costs me energy and wages wasting time talking about it.  Nothing in my life ever changes from talking/thinking about it.  From now on i think i would be a lot better off just getting on with life and ignoring it.

You'd just fill the time arguing about something else.

[AlunB]

It depends what you mean by politics. If you mean in its purest sense, then absolutely that's empowering and I think everyone should take an interest and I for one definitely should take more interest in it.

If you mean the whole game around it, then that annoys me intensely.

[DaveShoelace]

Currently reading this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Filter-Bubble-Internet-Hiding/dp/0241954525



Really good if you either like tech or politics, basically it explains very well the ways in which the personalised aspects of google and facebook are showing you the world you want to see, rather than the world as it is, based on your previous interactions on these platforms.

For example, if me and Alun both searched for the same term like maybe 'NHS cuts', one of us might see something horrifying about how the NHS is in freefall, the other one might see a bunch of articles about how everything is hunky dory. Also brilliantly explains why for some of us, it looked like Labour were going to win by a landslide in the election this year. 

[AlunB]

If we searched for NHS cu*ts though we would get this

[AlunB]

Currently reading this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Filter-Bubble-Internet-Hiding/dp/0241954525



Really good if you either like tech or politics, basically it explains very well the ways in which the personalised aspects of google and facebook are showing you the world you want to see, rather than the world as it is, based on your previous interactions on these platforms.

For example, if me and Alun both searched for the same term like maybe 'NHS cuts', one of us might see something horrifying about how the NHS is in freefall, the other one might see a bunch of articles about how everything is hunky dory. Also brilliantly explains why for some of us, it looked like Labour were going to win by a landslide in the election this year. 

It always makes me laugh when you see someone going off on Facebook about not wanting to see ads about dating sites, or some weird fetish when that's clearly only there because someone has been searching for it on their machine. Probably them.

[AndrewT]

It always makes me laugh when you see someone going off on Facebook about not wanting to see ads about dating sites, or some weird fetish when that's clearly only there because someone has been searching for it on their machine. Probably them.

And the worst thing is that those sites that promise to find you a Russian bride are just scam sites that take your money.

I have heard.

[DMorgan]

Allow me to open a pandora's box for you, some starter material to bring you up to speed:


http://www.spiked-online.com/free-speech-university-rankings/results#.Vj-eF67hDVo

http://www.spiked-online.com/free-speech-university-rankings/findings

https://www.thefire.org/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unlearning-Liberty-Campus-Censorship-American/dp/1594037302/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/


These two particular stories are doing this rounds this week, one from UK and one from the US. They are not outliers, they are depressingly common:

http://www.freerangekids.com/mob-of-yale-students-scream-profanities-about-halloween-costume-insensitivity/#.Vj91NOBejsE.twitter

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/why-are-student-union-officials-censoring-criticism-of-islamic-state/


I could go on, it's a subject I've been reading about quite solidly for the last year. In part because I think free speech is one of the most important things we have in modern society, and in part because I find it interesting how all of us don't realise how much of a bubble we live in when it comes to differing opinions.

Interesting that the Uni of Sheffield gets panned on spiked because the student union has a zero tolerance policy to sexual harassment. Those type of policies are chosen by students who are elected by the students. This is the same Union that has been in the top 10 in the country in terms of student satisfaction for the last 10 years and was top of the pile this year with 93% student satisfaction.

To suggest that this organisation is creating a suppressive environment seems like complete bile to me

Disclaimer: As a former Sheffield student I'm obviously biased

Apologies for the delayed reply, didn't see it was a link as it was on my phone. I don't agree that its thought policing though. The student body voted that they don't want it so would rather their union put the money behind the bar than spend it on stocking a newspaper that won't sell?

The whole 'rape culture' thing does seem a touch extreme though. Its exactly the kind of terminology that is going to put people off talking about it. Opening the door for people to blame their personal choices about sexual conduct on a 'culture' makes it easy for people to just brush off what I agree is a serious problem.

[Jon MW]

Currently reading this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Filter-Bubble-Internet-Hiding/dp/0241954525



Really good if you either like tech or politics, basically it explains very well the ways in which the personalised aspects of google and facebook are showing you the world you want to see, rather than the world as it is, based on your previous interactions on these platforms.

For example, if me and Alun both searched for the same term like maybe 'NHS cuts', one of us might see something horrifying about how the NHS is in freefall, the other one might see a bunch of articles about how everything is hunky dory. Also brilliantly explains why for some of us, it looked like Labour were going to win by a landslide in the election this year. 

It always makes me laugh when you see someone going off on Facebook about not wanting to see ads about dating sites, or some weird fetish when that's clearly only there because someone has been searching for it on their machine. Probably them.

I would guess that the ads for dating sites are going to be just as much about their relationship status as it would be about cookies on their computer. A handful of other things might be inferred but the general point is true that it's 'largely' about what you've done rather than who you are (as defined by your profile information).

[DungBeetle]

It always makes me laugh when you see someone going off on Facebook about not wanting to see ads about dating sites, or some weird fetish when that's clearly only there because someone has been searching for it on their machine. Probably them.

And the worst thing is that those sites that promise to find you a Russian bride are just scam sites that take your money.

I have heard.

Haha - didn't this happen to Prescott.  The buffoon tweeted that he wasn't comfortable that some Tory MP had a Thai bride advert on his page

[DaveShoelace]

Apologies for the delayed reply, didn't see it was a link as it was on my phone. I don't agree that its thought policing though. The student body voted that they don't want it so would rather their union put the money behind the bar than spend it on stocking a newspaper that won't sell?

There is no issue with the union choosing to not sell the paper, that's entirely their choice. The issue is if people are prevented from bringing a copy of the Sun from the local newsagent onto campus. I don't know the specific case here, but most of the time that is what these free speech rankings are in reference to.

The whole 'rape culture' thing does seem a touch extreme though. Its exactly the kind of terminology that is going to put people off talking about it. Opening the door for people to blame their personal choices about sexual conduct on a 'culture' makes it easy for people to just brush off what I agree is a serious problem.

Completely agree. It shuts down debate by saying something that is genuinely sexist like the Sun is being akin to rape, because rape is such a evocative word (I feel uncomfortable even typing it) and more importantly as you say, it trivialises a serious issue.

[DMorgan]

There is no issue with the union choosing to not sell the paper, that's entirely their choice. The issue is if people are prevented from bringing a copy of the Sun from the local newsagent onto campus. I don't know the specific case here, but most of the time that is what these free speech rankings are in reference to.

Yeah if that was the case I'd agree with you but its only the sale

This Union resolves to:

1.   Remove newspapers with 'Page 3' type content from sale in all of its outlets until such a time as 'Page 3' is removed from them.
2.   Support the national 'No More Page 3' campaign in lobbying 'The Sun' to remove 'Page 3'.

Approved by Students’ Union Council in February 2013. Due for review in October 2015.

[DaveShoelace]

There is no issue with the union choosing to not sell the paper, that's entirely their choice. The issue is if people are prevented from bringing a copy of the Sun from the local newsagent onto campus. I don't know the specific case here, but most of the time that is what these free speech rankings are in reference to.

Yeah if that was the case I'd agree with you but its only the sale

This Union resolves to:

1.   Remove newspapers with 'Page 3' type content from sale in all of its outlets until such a time as 'Page 3' is removed from them.
2.   Support the national 'No More Page 3' campaign in lobbying 'The Sun' to remove 'Page 3'.

Approved by Students’ Union Council in February 2013. Due for review in October 2015.

Fair enough then, I don't particularly think there is a problem with them doing that.

If you consider universities to be public sector (That could be a Q of the day in itself) and by extension the shops on campus also to be public sector, I could see an argument that it was still an infringement of free speech. But I think that's pretty tenuous argument, and IMO it seems a sensible business decison not to sell it.