Brian Hastings

[Rupert]

It was more that the VPN service I used was unreliable than me setting it up poorly I think. Interestingly, while I was banned from Stars I had some of the best months I've had online grinding out the dailies on the other sites. Also, I wasn't banned from Stars.FR at the time, just .com lol

[SuuPRlim]

if you want to be a successful internet poker player nowadays then spotting MA'ing is a skill you need, either spotting it yourself or have a network good enough to keep you informed. IF you don't have such skills then that's going to cut into your winrate, this is the same as having a very unbalanced turn c/r range...

The one good thing about MA'ing is, except in a few specific situations it doesn't really damage the recreational player pools too hard (although a negative impact on any side of the economy is sure to have a negative impact on all other sides in some form) I used to think it was the scummiest thing possible, alongside masturbating in a shared shower and stealing from the homeless, now I just see it as part of poker, some people chose to do it and some people don't. I don't think people necessarily should do it as it's against the rules, but I'm neither surprised nor horrified when someone does, those with the righteous, hard done by attitude "I always play it straight, its so unfair I am victim of this deception" are just unrealistic, naive and if they are a professional gambler just frankly poor at their job. This is part of the world you live in now, you will never stop it, so adapt and move with it.

Herein lies the irony on all these "cheating" scandals, the outrage is always hugely hypocritical and it depends entirely on who the victim is, if it's an individual person or group of individual people who are affected then its outrage, 2+2 threads, tirades of abuse and so on, if it's a big organisation then it's pat on the back well done you for beating the system.

I have probably used over 30 betting accounts in other names than myself to place bets that my accounts would not be allowed, this is no different to what Brian Hastings did, and we all know I'm no fan of BH so I would have little to no desire to defend him.

Pokerstars really really need to allow changes of SN's, then the problem is cut significantly, the "integrity" of the games everyone on 2+2 is so determined to protect just does not exist, all this mythical integrity does is play into the hands of the deceivers as those that are determined to uphold it leave themselves the most venerable.

I always find it funny that people have such rigid morals, that bend entirely on the basis of the rules that are broken and the people they affect. For any "cheating" to get any recognition it has to either i) be for big money, or ii) affect individual pro's.  

So yeah, Brian Hastings broke the rules, but I don't even think this should be newsworthy at all, and I personally consider it not a big deal.

[SuuPRlim]

It seems to me that this is not exactly the worst crime in the world. He was not multi-accounting in order to cheat (by having his opponents not know it was him), he was only doing it so that he could play some online tourneys whilst in the USA. And from what I gather he contacted as many of his opponents as he could to tell them it was him playing on the account.

but I do think he was without a doubt doing it to deceive his opponents, this "I just wanted to play and didnt want to get my account banned" stuff is absolute bollocks.

[The Camel]

It seems to me that this is not exactly the worst crime in the world. He was not multi-accounting in order to cheat (by having his opponents not know it was him), he was only doing it so that he could play some online tourneys whilst in the USA. And from what I gather he contacted as many of his opponents as he could to tell them it was him playing on the account.

but I do think he was without a doubt doing it to deceive his opponents, this "I just wanted to play and didnt want to get my account banned" stuff is absolute bollocks.

If he did it to decieve his opponents, why did he tell anyone he was behind the account?

And also, why Noel Hayes? Hayes is a pretty big name in Irish poker/gambling.

Is it Noel's account?

[buffyslayer1]

It seems to me that this is not exactly the worst crime in the world. He was not multi-accounting in order to cheat (by having his opponents not know it was him), he was only doing it so that he could play some online tourneys whilst in the USA. And from what I gather he contacted as many of his opponents as he could to tell them it was him playing on the account.

but I do think he was without a doubt doing it to deceive his opponents, this "I just wanted to play and didnt want to get my account banned" stuff is absolute bollocks.

If he did it to decieve his opponents, why did he tell anyone he was behind the account?

And also, why Noel Hayes? Hayes is a pretty big name in Irish poker/gambling.

Is it Noel's account?

it's pretty clear he picked somebody known as a sport bettor. Then apprently he played fishy at the start at the high stakes.

Looks very much like he was trying to look like a sport bettor taking a punt on higher stakes to get action. The whole thing is pretty scummy to be honest.

In the 2+2 thread a guy playing him showed hands where he lost a ton of money (was about 30k in PLO) where he didn't value bet river because it was a unknown whereas versus hastings he would bet every time

What makes it worse is a bunch of his HS pro's including some team stars pro's knew about this. Seems very dodgy to endorse a site but have your mates breaking the T&Cs

Also a interesting article by James obst on the matter

http://calvinayre.com/2015/06/29/poker/brian-hastings-scandal-a-view-the-poker-world-doesnt-want-to-hear-by-obst/

[arbboy]

It seems to me that this is not exactly the worst crime in the world. He was not multi-accounting in order to cheat (by having his opponents not know it was him), he was only doing it so that he could play some online tourneys whilst in the USA. And from what I gather he contacted as many of his opponents as he could to tell them it was him playing on the account.

but I do think he was without a doubt doing it to deceive his opponents, this "I just wanted to play and didnt want to get my account banned" stuff is absolute bollocks.

If he did it to decieve his opponents, why did he tell anyone he was behind the account?

And also, why Noel Hayes? Hayes is a pretty big name in Irish poker/gambling.

Is it Noel's account?

This is the bit i don't get.  If he keeps quiet (which, apart from ego, he has no reason at all to say a word) and the other guy keeps quiet (which should be easy as i assume he will be getting paid nicely just to let his account be used) then it is pretty impossible to ever prove that it is going on imo.  I would be amazed if the vast majority of high stakes guys haven't played on other accounts to get better quality action but have just kept it to themselves and it has never been found out.  Just like the vast majority of pro sports bettors have 'beards' who put bets on for them with firms so they can get better quality, higher margin action for bigger stakes.  They throw in some 'muggy' action at the start of the new account to come across as a 'loser' in order for the account to stay open longer.

[Pinchop73]

Zero repercussions for Hayestings yet. No beating, no stars ban, no IRS investigation. Nothing.

Popcorn.gif for the fallout

[doubleup]

It was more that the VPN service I used was unreliable than me setting it up poorly I think. Interestingly, while I was banned from Stars I had some of the best months I've had online grinding out the dailies on the other sites. Also, I wasn't banned from Stars.FR at the time, just .com lol

did you set it up like this lol

http://web.archive.org/web/20140203012435/http://cranthetrader.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/dont-allow-non-vpn-traffic.html

[Rupert]

I have probably used over 30 betting accounts in other names than myself to place bets that my accounts would not be allowed, this is no different to what Brian Hastings did, and we all know I'm no fan of BH so I would have little to no desire to defend him.

I think this is completely different to what he did.

[Gamblor21]

I have probably used over 30 betting accounts in other names than myself to place bets that my accounts would not be allowed, this is no different to what Brian Hastings did, and we all know I'm no fan of BH so I would have little to no desire to defend him.

I think this is completely different to what he did.

I work in the industry and have been on both sides of shadow accounts. Why is it different? It is still deception to get a bet that wouldn't necessarily be given if I knew who you were. Same as not sitting next to Hastings but happy to sit next to Hayes.

[SuuPRlim]

It seems to me that this is not exactly the worst crime in the world. He was not multi-accounting in order to cheat (by having his opponents not know it was him), he was only doing it so that he could play some online tourneys whilst in the USA. And from what I gather he contacted as many of his opponents as he could to tell them it was him playing on the account.

but I do think he was without a doubt doing it to deceive his opponents, this "I just wanted to play and didnt want to get my account banned" stuff is absolute bollocks.

If he did it to decieve his opponents, why did he tell anyone he was behind the account?

And also, why Noel Hayes? Hayes is a pretty big name in Irish poker/gambling.

Is it Noel's account?

he told a very small fraction of the people, in the event of Bakes at the scoop final he apparently told his friend to tell him, this friend messaged bakes and told him a well known pro was behind the NH account and he would tell him in ex for a %, I'm sure loads and loads of people who both know and have long history with him could show you lots of  play and zero attempt to reveal.

Anyways, yada yada yada more multi-accounting like I say Idk why anyone thinks this is remotely surprising, so many people multi-accounting, lets talk about the guys who aren't...

And yes, it was NH's genuine PS account, which apparently he bought form him. I don't really know though this all hearsay

[The Camel]

It seems to me that this is not exactly the worst crime in the world. He was not multi-accounting in order to cheat (by having his opponents not know it was him), he was only doing it so that he could play some online tourneys whilst in the USA. And from what I gather he contacted as many of his opponents as he could to tell them it was him playing on the account.

but I do think he was without a doubt doing it to deceive his opponents, this "I just wanted to play and didnt want to get my account banned" stuff is absolute bollocks.

If he did it to decieve his opponents, why did he tell anyone he was behind the account?

And also, why Noel Hayes? Hayes is a pretty big name in Irish poker/gambling.

Is it Noel's account?

he told a very small fraction of the people, in the event of Bakes at the scoop final he apparently told his friend to tell him, this friend messaged bakes and told him a well known pro was behind the NH account and he would tell him in ex for a %, I'm sure loads and loads of people who both know and have long history with him could show you lots of  play and zero attempt to reveal.

Anyways, yada yada yada more multi-accounting like I say Idk why anyone thinks this is remotely surprising, so many people multi-accounting, lets talk about the guys who aren't...

And yes, it was NH's genuine PS account, which apparently he bought form him. I don't really know though this all hearsay

Has Noel Hayes got any heat over this?

Pretty disappointed he would be involved in a coup like this tbh.

[arbboy]

Happy to do a swop for any high stakes pros.  My stars account for your Lads/Hills/365 betting accounts!  Happy to take any heat and bad pr as well.

[The Camel]

Happy to do a swop for any high stakes pros.  My stars account for your Lads/Hills/365 betting accounts!  Happy to take any heat and bad pr as well.

 

[Doobs]

It seems to me that this is not exactly the worst crime in the world. He was not multi-accounting in order to cheat (by having his opponents not know it was him), he was only doing it so that he could play some online tourneys whilst in the USA. And from what I gather he contacted as many of his opponents as he could to tell them it was him playing on the account.

but I do think he was without a doubt doing it to deceive his opponents, this "I just wanted to play and didnt want to get my account banned" stuff is absolute bollocks.

If he did it to decieve his opponents, why did he tell anyone he was behind the account?

And also, why Noel Hayes? Hayes is a pretty big name in Irish poker/gambling.

Is it Noel's account?

he told a very small fraction of the people, in the event of Bakes at the scoop final he apparently told his friend to tell him, this friend messaged bakes and told him a well known pro was behind the NH account and he would tell him in ex for a %, I'm sure loads and loads of people who both know and have long history with him could show you lots of  play and zero attempt to reveal.

Anyways, yada yada yada more multi-accounting like I say Idk why anyone thinks this is remotely surprising, so many people multi-accounting, lets talk about the guys who aren't...

And yes, it was NH's genuine PS account, which apparently he bought form him. I don't really know though this all hearsay

Why do we need to talk about those that aren't?  Why do you think those that aren't multi accounting are frankly poor at their jobs?