redarmi Staking Issue: Sports betting

[arbboy]

What's the point of a vouch? Glad to hear Pads knows what it means!

I might as well have just bought the entire £30k of action for myself then if i am on the hook for the downside but have no upside.  I can't imagine how scummy you would have to be to demand a refund from someone who you asked for their advice free of charge so you can potentially gain financially from it.  The vouch to the people who asked me was more for his ability to produce profits on the investment than whether the money was safe imo.  I think most people assumed someone linked to BE and TFT to the level he was and his standing within the industry for his career going forward it was pretty unlikely he would risk all that to make £30k. 

[TL900]

For the record I don't owe anybody any money.

[Kmac84]

poor show by Red Armi and hope all involved get money back, I made a few quid betting some of his selections but must admit his stuff during World Cup left a poor taste in mouth. 

[The Camel]

What's the point of a vouch? Glad to hear Pads knows what it means!

I might as well have just bought the entire £30k of action for myself then if i am on the hook for the downside but have no upside.  I can't imagine how scummy you would have to be to demand a refund from someone who you asked for their advice free of charge so you can potentially gain financially from it.

There's a huge difference between a vouch and an asked for opinion by a potential staker.

If in a staking proposal someone says Barack Obama vouches for me, then Barack is on the hook.

If there are no vouches in the proposal and I ask "As I don't know you, is there anyone I might know who can tell me about you" and he says "arbboy", then you wouldn't be on the hook for a penny.

If using someone's name encourages stakers with that persons knowledge, that is a vouch IMO.

That's how I understood the vouch system. But that must have changed sometime ago.

[Doobs]

It will never cease to amaze me how much money people will trust others to gamble with.

Most of us have stakeholder pensions - it's the same thing but you're trusting the faceless fund managers with a lot more money. And they get their 1% per year whether they win/lose  :-/

It really isn't the same thing at all

[The Camel]

poor show by Red Armi and hope all involved get money back, I made a few quid betting some of his selections but must admit his stuff during World Cup left a poor taste in mouth. 

You realise what a tiny sample size the World Cup is Kmac?

Same as the tennis at Wimbledon, which I saw you mention a couple of days ago. Nigel Seeley has run super hot the last 3 or 4 tournaments, it wasn't going to last forever. I think he's a really good judge and think he'll be profitable to follow long term. One tournament means nothing in the long run.

[bobAlike]

What's the point of a vouch? Glad to hear Pads knows what it means!

I might as well have just bought the entire £30k of action for myself then if i am on the hook for the downside but have no upside.  I can't imagine how scummy you would have to be to demand a refund from someone who you asked for their advice free of charge so you can potentially gain financially from it.  The vouch to the people who asked me was more for his ability to produce profits on the investment than whether the money was safe imo.  I think most people assumed someone linked to BE and TFT to the level he was and his standing within the industry for his career going forward it was pretty unlikely he would risk all that to make £30k.  

I don't know the full details. Just giving my opinion on a vouch. Fairplay to you if you only vouched for the skills and not the integrity.

[pleno1]

didn't mean anything bad about tom obviously. if redarmi handled this 10% as good as tom id be satisfied.

[arbboy]

What's the point of a vouch? Glad to hear Pads knows what it means!

I might as well have just bought the entire £30k of action for myself then if i am on the hook for the downside but have no upside.  I can't imagine how scummy you would have to be to demand a refund from someone who you asked for their advice free of charge so you can potentially gain financially from it.  The vouch to the people who asked me was more for his ability to produce profits on the investment than whether the money was safe imo.  I think most people assumed someone linked to BE and TFT to the level he was and his standing within the industry for his career going forward it was pretty unlikely he would risk all that to make £30k.  

I don't know the full details. Just giving my opinion on a vouch. Fairplay to you if you only vouched for the skills and not the integrity.

Why would any sane person in the world ever vouch for anyone under those conditions?

[pleno1]

don't think arbboy should be responsible and even if it was agreed he was i wouldn't take it.

i asked him his opinion, he never wrote to me asking me to invest and stu never mentioned arbboy as a reference or a vouch. it would be such a shitty spot for me to ask him to now pay when it was me writing to him and he was taking time out. if anything i feel sorry for him that a friend did this etc.

[04/01/2015 03:46:07] Patrick Leonard: Hey
[04/01/2015 03:46:15] live:jockfourthree: hi
[04/01/2015 03:46:34] Patrick Leonard: Just wondered what you thought about this redarni staking
[04/01/2015 03:46:39] live:jockfourthree: i got 10%
[04/01/2015 03:46:47] live:jockfourthree: he is a top guy
[04/01/2015 03:46:48] live:jockfourthree: known him 10 years
[04/01/2015 03:46:53] live:jockfourthree: probably my best mate in the game
[04/01/2015 03:47:00] live:jockfourthree: had a tough run last 2 years
[04/01/2015 03:47:08] live:jockfourthree: on and off punting
[04/01/2015 03:47:13] Patrick Leonard: Was just surprised dubai/channing/joe didn't just take it all if he's so good etc
[04/01/2015 03:47:16] live:jockfourthree: and just needs a shot
[04/01/2015 03:47:25] live:jockfourthree: he has sold out easily
[04/01/2015 03:47:49] Patrick Leonard: Hm I didn't think he had. I reserved 30 but said I wouldn't necessarily take it
[04/01/2015 03:48:03] Patrick Leonard: And he said he didn't have any other reserves if I didn't take it
15 03:51:43] live:jockfourthree: he is 100% good for the money
[04/01/2015 03:51:47] live:jockfourthree: he would never grim anyone
[04/01/2015 03:51:52] live:jockfourthree: he will work his tits
[04/01/2015 03:51:54] live:jockfourthree: off
[04/01/2015 03:51:56] live:jockfourthree: gtd
[04/01/2015 03:52:01] live:jockfourthree: u will have the best of it
[04/01/2015 03:52:05] live:jockfourthree: its a gamble
[04/01/2015 03:52:12] live:jockfourthree: it might take another bullet
[04/01/2015 03:52:17] live:jockfourthree: u never know
[04/01/2015 03:52:26] live:jockfourthree: but i dont stake hardly anyone
[04/01/2015 03:52:35] live:jockfourthree: and i was happy to have 10% of this
[04/01/2015 03:52:42] live:jockfourthree: i am the biggest non staker u will ever meet
[04/01/2015 03:52:53] live:jockfourthree: which actually got him 60% of his action elsewhere
[04/01/2015 03:53:08] Patrick Leonard: To be clear if he does the 30 and we reload it counts as 60k he has to win right?
[04/01/2015 03:53:11] live:jockfourthree: as soon as a certain poker player who knows i am a non staking nit knew i was invovled
[04/01/2015 03:53:14] live:jockfourthree: he wanted 50%
[04/01/2015 03:53:29] live:jockfourthree: i would imagine so
[04/01/2015 03:53:35] live:jockfourthree: i havent confirmed that with him
[04/01/2015 03:53:42] Patrick Leonard: Ok we should
[04/01/2015 03:53:42] live:jockfourthree: but it makes logical sense
[04/01/2015 03:53:44] Patrick Leonard: I'll flick it in then I guess
[04/01/2015 03:53:53] live:jockfourthree: u will have worse investments
[04/01/2015 03:53:59] live:jockfourthree: think of it this way
[04/01/2015 03:54:04] live:jockfourthree: he is udner the cosh
[04/01/2015 03:54:04] live:jockfourthree: with kids
[04/01/2015 03:54:05] live:jockfourthree: wife
[04/01/2015 03:54:06] Patrick Leonard: Yeh
[04/01/2015 03:54:11] live:jockfourthree: not having usa visa
[04/01/2015 03:54:14] live:jockfourthree: his exs are large
[04/01/2015 03:54:16] live:jockfourthree: life wise
[04/01/2015 03:54:17] Patrick Leonard: How's he gonna get on the bets?
[04/01/2015 03:54:30] live:jockfourthree: he has a proper team of people who are real pro punters backign him
[04/01/2015 03:54:33] live:jockfourthree: showing him confidence
[04/01/2015 03:54:43] live:jockfourthree: he will do everything it takes to justify the support
[04/01/2015 03:54:51] live:jockfourthree: he will get the bets on in the shops
[04/01/2015 03:54:54] live:jockfourthree: dont worry about that
[04/01/2015 03:55:00] live:jockfourthree: he is 100% motivated
[04/01/2015 03:55:06] live:jockfourthree: dont worry about any of that
[04/01/2015 03:55:08] Patrick Leonard: Ok great
[04/01/2015 03:55:16] live:jockfourthree: he used to be my boss 9 years ago
[04/01/2015 03:55:18] Patrick Leonard: I'll send him some good newcastle bets every couple of weeks too!
[04/01/2015 03:55:19] live:jockfourthree: in antigua
[04/01/2015 03:55:23] live:jockfourthree: when we worked together
[04/01/2015 03:55:29] live:jockfourthree: he is a top top maths guru
[04/01/2015 03:55:32] live:jockfourthree: he isnt a punter
[04/01/2015 03:55:49] live:jockfourthree: he knows the game inside out
[04/01/2015 03:55:55] live:jockfourthree: u migiht lose
[04/01/2015 03:56:02] live:jockfourthree: but there are worse ways to invest ur cash
[04/01/2015 03:56:08] live:jockfourthree: u know the score
[04/01/2015 03:56:21] live:jockfourthree: i tell people who it is
[04/01/2015 03:56:25] live:jockfourthree: i hardly ever stake people
[04/01/2015 03:56:31] live:jockfourthree: i can gtd 2 things
[04/01/2015 03:56:34] live:jockfourthree: he will never ever grim anyone
[04/01/2015 03:56:38] live:jockfourthree: and he will work his tits off
[04/01/2015 03:56:44] live:jockfourthree: u cant ask for anymore
[04/01/2015 03:57:07] live:jockfourthree: those two things to me are priceless
[04/01/2015 03:57:15] live:jockfourthree: obv without talent they mean nothing
[04/01/2015 03:57:18] live:jockfourthree: but he has talent
[04/01/2015 03:57:40] Patrick Leonard: Yeh sounds good
[04/01/2015 03:57:45] live:jockfourthree: its a bet to u
[04/01/2015 03:57:46] live:jockfourthree: i assume
[04/01/2015 03:57:52] Patrick Leonard: Will get a sweat from it
[04/01/2015 03:57:52] live:jockfourthree: tiny % of roll
[04/01/2015 03:57:54] live:jockfourthree: sure
[04/01/2015 03:58:08] live:jockfourthree: its never going to be a sweat
[04/01/2015 03:58:10] live:jockfourthree: to bink the world
[04/01/2015 03:58:13] live:jockfourthree: its a grinding game
[04/01/2015 03:58:15] live:jockfourthree: what he is doing
[04/01/2015 03:58:20] live:jockfourthree: so dont expect the world
[04/01/2015 03:58:27] live:jockfourthree: but u wont lose the world either
[04/01/2015 03:58:32] Patrick Leonard: Yeh true
[04/01/2015 03:58:35] live:jockfourthree: he is grinding 2-5% edges
[04/01/2015 03:58:38] live:jockfourthree: hourly
[04/01/2015 03:58:49] live:jockfourthree: maybe less % than that
[04/01/2015 03:59:21] live:jockfourthree: i appreciate u asking me for my opinion
[04/01/2015 03:59:21] Patrick Leonard: Big grind yeh
[04/01/2015 03:59:33] live:jockfourthree: i have had several people ask the same
[04/01/2015 03:59:35] Patrick Leonard: And likewise I more than appreciate you taking time to reply too

[George2Loose]

What's the point of a vouch? Glad to hear Pads knows what it means!

I might as well have just bought the entire £30k of action for myself then if i am on the hook for the downside but have no upside.  I can't imagine how scummy you would have to be to demand a refund from someone who you asked for their advice free of charge so you can potentially gain financially from it.  The vouch to the people who asked me was more for his ability to produce profits on the investment than whether the money was safe imo.  I think most people assumed someone linked to BE and TFT to the level he was and his standing within the industry for his career going forward it was pretty unlikely he would risk all that to make £30k. 

This is true if he lost the money using it for what it was originally intended but aren't you saying he has basically grimmed you by using it for personal gain? In which case the vouch argument comes into play

[The Camel]

What's the point of a vouch? Glad to hear Pads knows what it means!

I might as well have just bought the entire £30k of action for myself then if i am on the hook for the downside but have no upside.  I can't imagine how scummy you would have to be to demand a refund from someone who you asked for their advice free of charge so you can potentially gain financially from it.  The vouch to the people who asked me was more for his ability to produce profits on the investment than whether the money was safe imo.  I think most people assumed someone linked to BE and TFT to the level he was and his standing within the industry for his career going forward it was pretty unlikely he would risk all that to make £30k.  

I don't know the full details. Just giving my opinion on a vouch. Fairplay to you if you only vouched for the skills and not the integrity.

Why would any sane person in the world ever vouch for anyone under those conditions?

Doing a friend a favour. Probably because I would have the stake if my current roll allowed it, but I can't justify it at the moment

As I said, there are maybe 5 people I would do this for.

All of them 10000/1+ to grim anyone.

[nirvana]

Hilarious. Pads ask is he trustworthy. Arb in 38 repetitions of the same thing shocker. To fun

[George2Loose]

[04/01/2015 03:56:31] live:jockfourthree: i can gtd 2 things
[04/01/2015 03:56:34] live:jockfourthree: he will never ever grim anyone
[04/01/2015 03:56:38] live:jockfourthree: and he will work his tits off

[Kmac84]

poor show by Red Armi and hope all involved get money back, I made a few quid betting some of his selections but must admit his stuff during World Cup left a poor taste in mouth. 

You realise what a tiny sample size the World Cup is Kmac?

Same as the tennis at Wimbledon, which I saw you mention a couple of days ago. Nigel Seeley has run super hot the last 3 or 4 tournaments, it wasn't going to last forever. I think he's a really good judge and think he'll be profitable to follow long term. One tournament means nothing in the long run.

I do but it wasn't just the running bad.  Anyway that's a different gripe.