Britain at the Bookies

[Simon Galloway]

He might also enjoy splashing some cash on online slots, blackjack, roulette etc. Even if he is a winning sports bettor, he could still be a profitable account for the firm on other products. 

If they took that view and tolerated the action for "the greater good" then it would be reasonable.  But they don't, they restrict on the markets he has some clue about whilst spamming the shit out of him to play online slots.  And in doing so, they deserve to get no action whatsoever.

[tikay]

He might also enjoy splashing some cash on online slots, blackjack, roulette etc. Even if he is a winning sports bettor, he could still be a profitable account for the firm on other products. 

If they took that view and tolerated the action for "the greater good" then it would be reasonable.  But they don't, they restrict on the markets he has some clue about whilst spamming the shit out of him to play online slots.  And in doing so, they deserve to get no action whatsoever.

Fair comment, but that does not apply to all Firms.

[Doobs]

He might also enjoy splashing some cash on online slots, blackjack, roulette etc. Even if he is a winning sports bettor, he could still be a profitable account for the firm on other products. 

If they took that view and tolerated the action for "the greater good" then it would be reasonable.  But they don't, they restrict on the markets he has some clue about whilst spamming the shit out of him to play online slots.  And in doing so, they deserve to get no action whatsoever.

Fair comment, but that does not apply to all Firms.

Shy heavily restrict me despite my poker play.   Bf Sportsbook heavily restricted me despite my exchange and poker business.  The Stars Sportsbook is barely usable and seems to duck every bet vs Betfair so can't confirm what they do yet. 

Maybe they all treat casino business differently?  Guess if I regularly spewed £100 on hanging monkeys then I'd be ok for a fiver e/w in the National with both firms.

[tikay]

He might also enjoy splashing some cash on online slots, blackjack, roulette etc. Even if he is a winning sports bettor, he could still be a profitable account for the firm on other products. 

If they took that view and tolerated the action for "the greater good" then it would be reasonable.  But they don't, they restrict on the markets he has some clue about whilst spamming the shit out of him to play online slots.  And in doing so, they deserve to get no action whatsoever.

Fair comment, but that does not apply to all Firms.

Shy heavily restrict me despite my poker play.   Bf Sportsbook heavily restricted me despite my exchange and poker business.  The Stars Sportsbook is barely usable and seems to duck every bet vs Betfair so can't confirm what they do yet. 

Maybe they all treat casino business differently?  Guess if I regularly spewed £100 on hanging monkeys then I'd be ok for a fiver e/w in the National with both firms.

I doubt the amount of poker you play would make a dot of difference on any multi media platform. Poker (or the rake you generate) is a very small part of the whole, especially compared to Sports Betting or House Games.   

[Doobs]

He might also enjoy splashing some cash on online slots, blackjack, roulette etc. Even if he is a winning sports bettor, he could still be a profitable account for the firm on other products. 

If they took that view and tolerated the action for "the greater good" then it would be reasonable.  But they don't, they restrict on the markets he has some clue about whilst spamming the shit out of him to play online slots.  And in doing so, they deserve to get no action whatsoever.

Fair comment, but that does not apply to all Firms.

Shy heavily restrict me despite my poker play.   Bf Sportsbook heavily restricted me despite my exchange and poker business.  The Stars Sportsbook is barely usable and seems to duck every bet vs Betfair so can't confirm what they do yet. 

Maybe they all treat casino business differently?  Guess if I regularly spewed £100 on hanging monkeys then I'd be ok for a fiver e/w in the National with both firms.

I doubt the amount of poker you play would make a dot of difference on any multi media platform. Poker (or the rake you generate) is a very small part of the whole, especially compared to Sports Betting or House Games.   

I know my shy account isn't heavily used, but I was a pretty big raker on bf poker and a fairly heavy exchange user.  In fact 90%+ of my betting and poker used to be through bf, and I was a bigger player at the time.  They still restricted me to miserly amounts on the sportsbook.  Sure Arbboy has suffered worse in comparison.  They still used to take me to very nice events.  I find parts of the bf model bizarre.  If you are a fairly big player, you get to dine in a nice restaurant at Ascot, if you are a huge player you get premium charged to effectively force you out.  The fact I can't get a tenner each way in the Open even when restricted to 6 places just seems odd when you know you have been to Ascot.  It just doesn't seem joined up at all (well it obviously it is on the way they restrict, but not in the way they reward).

Despite some of the things they get wrong, they seem hugely succesful so what do I know?

[nirvana]

Was that 'Angry Greg Raymer' we caught a glimpse of a few times at Romford?

Lol..deffo he'm yah

[tikay]

He might also enjoy splashing some cash on online slots, blackjack, roulette etc. Even if he is a winning sports bettor, he could still be a profitable account for the firm on other products. 

If they took that view and tolerated the action for "the greater good" then it would be reasonable.  But they don't, they restrict on the markets he has some clue about whilst spamming the shit out of him to play online slots.  And in doing so, they deserve to get no action whatsoever.

Fair comment, but that does not apply to all Firms.

Shy heavily restrict me despite my poker play.   Bf Sportsbook heavily restricted me despite my exchange and poker business.  The Stars Sportsbook is barely usable and seems to duck every bet vs Betfair so can't confirm what they do yet. 

Maybe they all treat casino business differently?  Guess if I regularly spewed £100 on hanging monkeys then I'd be ok for a fiver e/w in the National with both firms.

I doubt the amount of poker you play would make a dot of difference on any multi media platform. Poker (or the rake you generate) is a very small part of the whole, especially compared to Sports Betting or House Games.   

I know my shy account isn't heavily used, but I was a pretty big raker on bf poker and a fairly heavy exchange user.  In fact 90%+ of my betting and poker used to be through bf, and I was a bigger player at the time.  They still restricted me to miserly amounts on the sportsbook.  Sure Arbboy has suffered worse in comparison.  They still used to take me to very nice events.  I find parts of the bf model bizarre.  If you are a fairly big player, you get to dine in a nice restaurant at Ascot, if you are a huge player you get premium charged to effectively force you out.  The fact I can't get a tenner each way in the Open even when restricted to 6 places just seems odd when you know you have been to Ascot.  It just doesn't seem joined up at all (well it obviously it is on the way they restrict, but not in the way they reward).

Despite some of the things they get wrong, they seem hugely succesful so what do I know?

Exactly the point. They are not as lol as some think.

[edgascoigne]

He might also enjoy splashing some cash on online slots, blackjack, roulette etc. Even if he is a winning sports bettor, he could still be a profitable account for the firm on other products. 

If they took that view and tolerated the action for "the greater good" then it would be reasonable.  But they don't, they restrict on the markets he has some clue about whilst spamming the shit out of him to play online slots.  And in doing so, they deserve to get no action whatsoever.

Fair comment, but that does not apply to all Firms.

Shy heavily restrict me despite my poker play.   Bf Sportsbook heavily restricted me despite my exchange and poker business.  The Stars Sportsbook is barely usable and seems to duck every bet vs Betfair so can't confirm what they do yet. 

Maybe they all treat casino business differently?  Guess if I regularly spewed £100 on hanging monkeys then I'd be ok for a fiver e/w in the National with both firms.

I doubt the amount of poker you play would make a dot of difference on any multi media platform. Poker (or the rake you generate) is a very small part of the whole, especially compared to Sports Betting or House Games.   

I know my shy account isn't heavily used, but I was a pretty big raker on bf poker and a fairly heavy exchange user.  In fact 90%+ of my betting and poker used to be through bf, and I was a bigger player at the time.  They still restricted me to miserly amounts on the sportsbook.  Sure Arbboy has suffered worse in comparison.  They still used to take me to very nice events.  I find parts of the bf model bizarre.  If you are a fairly big player, you get to dine in a nice restaurant at Ascot, if you are a huge player you get premium charged to effectively force you out.  The fact I can't get a tenner each way in the Open even when restricted to 6 places just seems odd when you know you have been to Ascot.  It just doesn't seem joined up at all (well it obviously it is on the way they restrict, but not in the way they reward).

Despite some of the things they get wrong, they seem hugely succesful so what do I know?

Exactly the point. They are not as lol as some think.

**sits on hands**

Let's just say the biz is very differently run now to 3-4 years ago/.

@ Doobs - did you used to get lots of BF invites until about 5 years ago before them then slowing down?

[arbboy]

He might also enjoy splashing some cash on online slots, blackjack, roulette etc. Even if he is a winning sports bettor, he could still be a profitable account for the firm on other products.  

If they took that view and tolerated the action for "the greater good" then it would be reasonable.  But they don't, they restrict on the markets he has some clue about whilst spamming the shit out of him to play online slots.  And in doing so, they deserve to get no action whatsoever.

Fair comment, but that does not apply to all Firms.

Shy heavily restrict me despite my poker play.   Bf Sportsbook heavily restricted me despite my exchange and poker business.  The Stars Sportsbook is barely usable and seems to duck every bet vs Betfair so can't confirm what they do yet.  

Maybe they all treat casino business differently?  Guess if I regularly spewed £100 on hanging monkeys then I'd be ok for a fiver e/w in the National with both firms.

I doubt the amount of poker you play would make a dot of difference on any multi media platform. Poker (or the rake you generate) is a very small part of the whole, especially compared to Sports Betting or House Games.  

I know my shy account isn't heavily used, but I was a pretty big raker on bf poker and a fairly heavy exchange user.  In fact 90%+ of my betting and poker used to be through bf, and I was a bigger player at the time.  They still restricted me to miserly amounts on the sportsbook.  Sure Arbboy has suffered worse in comparison.  They still used to take me to very nice events.  I find parts of the bf model bizarre.  If you are a fairly big player, you get to dine in a nice restaurant at Ascot, if you are a huge player you get premium charged to effectively force you out.  The fact I can't get a tenner each way in the Open even when restricted to 6 places just seems odd when you know you have been to Ascot.  It just doesn't seem joined up at all (well it obviously it is on the way they restrict, but not in the way they reward).

Despite some of the things they get wrong, they seem hugely succesful so what do I know?

I get why they don't want my sportsbook action.  It's just the way the business works.  My problem is i still get my business on with bfsb via friends.  I have discussed this with my VIP manager several times over the years and he says pretty much 'that's just the game everyone plays' which is fair enough.  My problem with the bf sb is closing my account on certain sports before i had even had a bet with their sportsbook when it opened.  I was cut to zero on dogs before the sportsbook was even open.  I don't agree they should be able to use my exchange data/results to use in their sportsbook to decide whether they take a bet from me before their sportsbook was even opened for trade.  Obviously after a few bets on other sports i was cut across to board to pennies.

It is a bizarre model as doobs says.  I have been very well looked after by betfair hospitality wise over the years although that has been massively cut back since the paddy power ceo came in and the sportsbook was open.  I have been to the Cheltenham festival every year for 1 or 2 days for years in their tent.  Ascot with them.  Man U box at least twice a season.  O2 for NBA/tennis etc. Darts/snooker when they sponsored those a few years back.  Obviously in the last ten years i have more than paid for this via my rake and commission.  I would imagine i have paid bf well over £1m in rake and commission since i joined them.  At my peak of arbing and playing poker back in the day circa 2006-2010 i had over 700,000 betfair points at my peak i think.  You need 150k to be on 2% commission.  It used to be 100k for 2% in the old days before they put in an effective commission hike in a sneaky manner by pushing all the levels of points needed for each commission rate a few years ago.

I think my biggest ever month rakeback wise was £46k during a promo i won a 150% rakeback month in 2010 before they floated in order to boost their poker figures to show to the market.  Mental 2 months where you had to be the top raker in April on the site in order to get 150% rakeback for the following month.  I must have done 18 hour days playing 15 high stakes stts at a time for literally 60 days straight.  None of those games even run now and i rarely play any online poker anymore and/or arb anymore.  My standard monthly commission paid on the exchange is between £4-5k on a standard month nowadays on bets i win.  I don't count the commission i obviously donate on losing bets which the other side pays from their winnings.  This is much lower than during my peak arbing years of 2006-2010.  

I think the premium charge is misunderstood as a lot of big players (who are winners) don't pay it.  There are plenty of smaller players who pay it who don't actually win that much.  I think you need to have paid at least 30% of your lifetime winnings in commission to not pay it.  It is a complex formula but that is the basics.  So if you have won £500k lifetime and have paid £250k in commission then you won't pay the premium charge.  Big position takers (who don't green up) very rarely pay the PC.   I actually agree with the premium charge to punish bots who just constantly green up and suck money out of the system and give very little back to betfair in commission in order of bf to keep recruiting new customers to keep the show on the road.

[tikay]

We can moan & lol all we like about Betfair, but if I were a shareholder I'd be pretty happy with this. And they exist for the benefit of their shareholders.


GROUP REVENUE
(£m)
£476.5m
+21%
ORDINARY DIVIDEND
(per share)
34.0 pence
+70%
B SHARE DIVIDEND
(per share)
189.0 pence

http://corporate.betfair.com/~/media/Files/B/Betfair-Corporate/pdf/annual-report-2015.pdf

[Chompy]

I have literally never had anything off any bookmaker.

Not sure those Betfair Xmas hampers were for real, or whether it was a wind-up, but never even had a diary off them. The only thing they gave me was a 50% PC, even though I never used software, bots, or any of that shiz.

I got a diary off Coral one year but he sayed "we'll send you one if there are any left." Marv.

Fumming here.

[DungBeetle]

Spreadex sent me some smoked salmon once.

[BorntoBubble]

Arrboy why dont you think its right for Betfair exchange to give info to Sportsbook to restrict you.

If you had defaulted on a loan with Barclays I wouldnt expect them to give you a credit card as they will have shared that information.

I do think its "fair" for the bookies to restrict in certain ways but I do not like the way they do it. To me if they are restricting on a Premier League match where they are not best priced and not beating betfair this seems utterly stupid?

Also why not say you can have £200 at 2/1 and £200 at 6/4 etc etc at least give people a chance to get the bet on but not at the price they originally asked for.

If I am always working at a loss for a customer I am going to stop working with that person so I do get the "not taking bets from winners" but I also hate that they can so easily get away with FOBT online casino's and effectively ruin people's lives

[arbboy]

The only other corp hospitality i have had from a bookmaker was a comical story.  In 2006 i had a big losing totesport account i was arbing horses daily on in my then girlfriend's name.  Must have been £20k down on it in the first month of having it.  Dream spot for an arber.  I remember one 17 runner hcap during that month i backed 11 horses ew with them on the account for the max they would allow.  All 11 horses somehow managed to be unplaced and i did the absolute lot to them on that race.  During the same month i went for a senior trading interview with the same totesport at Wigan.  Met the trading director (TD) etc.  Never got the role because he didn't seem too keen having a pro punter/arber on his team (no idea why).  Anyway the following week my gf gets a letter in the post offering her and a guest full works hospitality at Haydock in the Totesport box.  

Obviously we go and have a lovely day out and incredibly i end up on the same table for lunch in the big totesport box as the TD who interviewed me!  No idea what the TD was doing on a busy Saturday afternoon wining and dining guests when he should have been at managing positions etc.  He obviously remembered me and asked me what on earth i was doing in their box on full hospitality.  Safe to say even though the account was £20k down and i backed 11 horses e/w in a race which all were unplaced the account was promptly closed on Monday morning!

Don't think the day out was worth losing that account looking back.

[Eso Kral]

Was that 'Angry Greg Raymer' we caught a glimpse of a few times at Romford?

Lol..deffo he'm yah

Yeah defo him!

At Southend when he was a reg he was known as Handbag Dave