lil dave's lil life

[celtic]

Be interested what the clever people of blonde think about this topic;

I'm a pretty big believer that one of the biggest contributor to social issues we face in the UK is lack of aspiration in young people. I was very lucky, I grew up with enterprising parents and went to a good school, it's one thing to say "You can be whatever you want David" but it's another to see it in action, my Dad had a successful business and went bankrupt when I was about 11/12, was obviously tough on him but he just dusted down, got a job for a year paid all his debts and started out again, that's pretty inspiring because it showed me that it's OK to fail, my Dad said he'd rather be scrapping about trying to do what he wants than accepting defeat (in his eyes) and conceding his ambitions, and I believe him fully. It never really worked out for him truthfully (I often wonder if he feels gutted about how things turned out or if he's chilled with it I genuinely don't know) but I have more respect for the man than imaginable because he never stopped trying, ever.

As lucky as I was, I think the reality for a lot of people growing up now is there is pretty much zero career aspiration in their lives, surrounding them is unemployment, recession this, doom and gloom that. When I was at school it was firmly believed that the only way to get going is to get to Uni and get a degree, I disagreed entirely with that at the time, and disagree even more now, but at least it offered some aspiration to people... Do well at school, go uni, get a first, get sick job, run up the ladder, start own business, buy yacht etc. Now with uni becoming less accessible and the fruits of a degree becoming less meaningful that's been taken away without a real replacement. I really like the apprenticeship schemes I think they are fantastic, and the people working on them are absolutely amazing people, but they are packaged and sold to kids pretty damn poorly - I has a 17yr old guy working for me and I had to really push him to go on the scheme when basically he'd get the same money, 1 day a week less physical work AND a qualification at the end (no brainer!!)

I know it's not the be all and end all and many many people end up really happy by working their way into an Ok job and having a family, but that's not exactly a big carrot for a 17yr old. I'm talking about the kind of encouragement that makes kids sit up and go, "bloody hell right if I can actually achieve that then i'm gonna really work hard and go for it." We all know life changes, things happen you rarely end up finishing on the same path you start out on at 18, but you need a path to follow.

For me, encouraging enterprise is the way out of this, yes create jobs etc but more important than anything, show people that IT IS POSSIBLE to get where you want to go, look there's John, remember when he was unemployed? Well look at him now running his own business, that's some inspiration people could actually relate too. Laura loves watching these "Britain on benefits" shows on TV, people get raged because X person doesn't work and gets £20k a yr or w/e but the most horrible thing I saw on one of those shows was an unemployed women sending her kids off to school, she told them that "school doesn't really matter, you don't use any of that stuff in life anyways" you could say about that women "HOW DISGUSTING SHE WOULD SAY THAT TO A CHILD" she's basically telling her kids that they don't have a chance of making anything of themselves, that the privileges and possibilities available to other kids are not for them, so why bother.  You can see why she believes this, how do we break that cycle?

Very happy to be told I'm wrong - this is one of the few political subjects I have any passion about so would love to hear some views!!!

Very true mate, whilst different people come from different backgrounds, if people aspire to a better job and life for themselves via training and education they have a very good chance to improve their lives. I simply don't agree that if you are born poor you can't do anything to improve yourself, that will never cut it with me I'm afraid....

Whilst I kind of agree, it's not always that straight forward woodsey. Not everyone can be educated or trained, through no real fault of their own.

[RED-DOG]

Be interested what the clever people of blonde think about this topic;

I'm a pretty big believer that one of the biggest contributor to social issues we face in the UK is lack of aspiration in young people. I was very lucky, I grew up with enterprising parents and went to a good school, it's one thing to say "You can be whatever you want David" but it's another to see it in action, my Dad had a successful business and went bankrupt when I was about 11/12, was obviously tough on him but he just dusted down, got a job for a year paid all his debts and started out again, that's pretty inspiring because it showed me that it's OK to fail, my Dad said he'd rather be scrapping about trying to do what he wants than accepting defeat (in his eyes) and conceding his ambitions, and I believe him fully. It never really worked out for him truthfully (I often wonder if he feels gutted about how things turned out or if he's chilled with it I genuinely don't know) but I have more respect for the man than imaginable because he never stopped trying, ever.

As lucky as I was, I think the reality for a lot of people growing up now is there is pretty much zero career aspiration in their lives, surrounding them is unemployment, recession this, doom and gloom that. When I was at school it was firmly believed that the only way to get going is to get to Uni and get a degree, I disagreed entirely with that at the time, and disagree even more now, but at least it offered some aspiration to people... Do well at school, go uni, get a first, get sick job, run up the ladder, start own business, buy yacht etc. Now with uni becoming less accessible and the fruits of a degree becoming less meaningful that's been taken away without a real replacement. I really like the apprenticeship schemes I think they are fantastic, and the people working on them are absolutely amazing people, but they are packaged and sold to kids pretty damn poorly - I has a 17yr old guy working for me and I had to really push him to go on the scheme when basically he'd get the same money, 1 day a week less physical work AND a qualification at the end (no brainer!!)

I know it's not the be all and end all and many many people end up really happy by working their way into an Ok job and having a family, but that's not exactly a big carrot for a 17yr old. I'm talking about the kind of encouragement that makes kids sit up and go, "bloody hell right if I can actually achieve that then i'm gonna really work hard and go for it." We all know life changes, things happen you rarely end up finishing on the same path you start out on at 18, but you need a path to follow.

For me, encouraging enterprise is the way out of this, yes create jobs etc but more important than anything, show people that IT IS POSSIBLE to get where you want to go, look there's John, remember when he was unemployed? Well look at him now running his own business, that's some inspiration people could actually relate too. Laura loves watching these "Britain on benefits" shows on TV, people get raged because X person doesn't work and gets £20k a yr or w/e but the most horrible thing I saw on one of those shows was an unemployed women sending her kids off to school, she told them that "school doesn't really matter, you don't use any of that stuff in life anyways" you could say about that women "HOW DISGUSTING SHE WOULD SAY THAT TO A CHILD" she's basically telling her kids that they don't have a chance of making anything of themselves, that the privileges and possibilities available to other kids are not for them, so why bother.  You can see why she believes this, how do we break that cycle?

Very happy to be told I'm wrong - this is one of the few political subjects I have any passion about so would love to hear some views!!!

Very true mate, whilst different people come from different backgrounds, if people aspire to a better job and life for themselves via training and education they have a very good chance to improve their lives. I simply don't agree that if you are born poor you can't do anything to improve yourself, that will never cut it with me I'm afraid....

Whilst I kind of agree, it's not always that straight forward woodsey. Not everyone can be educated or trained, through no real fault of their own.

A lot of poor people are not brought up in an environment that's conducive to bettering themselves. Like most people, they follow their peers.

I agree with the notion that virtually anyone could better themselves but for the most part, the ambition to do it has to be taught.

[TightEnd]

i mean is aspiration nature or nurture?

i have one lad who is ambituous and a "go getter". I have one that would rather stay in bed, do what he wants to do and work to get by. Both brought up the same way

Now both will be fine because their upbringing has been comfortable enough that they'll get by whatever, but I am a firm believer (much more so than when i did the conventional path of school,university,milk round,job, career, family) that school to university or whatever isnt the be all and end all. That things like travel and apprenticeships (and becoming self sufficient) are  a much better preparation for life than coming out at 22yo having only seen the inside of a lecture room and pubs!   

[SuuPRlim]

Surely the entrepreneur in you offered to run the failed tuck shop on behalf of the school,for a fee?

I actually had a realy bad relationship with (most of) my teachers...I was a bit of a head-strong know-it-all (polite version) and that irritated them. One of my life's purest moments involved a former teacher 5-6 yrs after I left school.

It was head of year, now we'd always had a bit of friction me and this women she never really liked me then right at the death we had a big blow up, stupid story but kinda funny.

It all began on the last few days of actual school (going in for lessons) when a group of guys I was sort of mates with decided that they were going to print off 200 sheets of paper with "GET YOUR BALLS OUT" written on it, and combine them with water balloons and go "attack" a neighbouring school. When the investigation came round the question was "which pupil has a half red/half grey B-reg ford capri (lol) it was hard enough to argue there was another car like this in the country, let alone that it just so happened to be water-ballooning  a local school in the lunch break... My ONLY connection to this incident was it was my computer password which had printed off all the sheets, I was actually in a class when it happened (20 witnesses+teacher) and when i was pulled in about it was genuinely the first i've heard of it, the other lads quickly confessed and directly added I had zero involvement. All this evidence should have lead to a quick release but I was held (by this women) for 3 hours and afterwards told that a decision on whether I'd be welcome in the leavers ball would be made later.

Right now, I am so fucking angry words can't explains, apoplectic with rage I am abso determined to get my own back, the next day i snuck into the register office, and called EXACTLY 50% of year 7 students to the staff room (nicely doubled with this womens office), caused absolute carnage and near on closed the school for an hour, FUCK WITH LIL DAVE AT YOUR OWN PERIL. Unfortunately one of the kids had a panic attack and that put a damper on the prank, he had to go home. I clearly was trying to get my own back on an injustice not knock out any poor kids, so next day I swiftly wrote an apology letter to the kids family, they responded immediately accepting my apology, case closed.

Now my year head absolutely goes after me, she want's to get me expelled, not sit my exams, and ban me from my own leavers ball.  Anyway we have this meeting with the headmaster (I turned up drunk - was so OVER IT at the point) but luckily my dad was on hand to save the day, the head was like "boys being boys" "don't be such a knob in future please young man" etc and that was sposed to be it over, but then she tried to get the kids parents to put in a formal complaint (they refused and called me to tell me) they tried to ban me from the leavers assembly (who cares) but then the only other guy who could operate the sound/lighting equipment broke his hand so they called me 40 mins before ans asked my to do it, which I did

Next thing i see this women in weatherspoons (of all places) and she comes up to me and says that I am;

a) A waste of space
b) going to achieve nothing
c) enjoy my stupid life

I responded with

a) I don't need this stupid school
b) I'll show you
c) You're a c**t


Fast forward ~6 years, I'm in Las Vegas, I'm in Tao nightclub, me and my friend Jon both won huge in the same game earlier (I forget exact numbers, I had some pieces out but defo netted personally over £50k, and Jon won over 100$) I'm coming out of the toilets (hammered) and WHO DO I SEE!!!!!!!!!!

That's right.

Two ways to handle such a situation -

option 1. Dignified, humble, grown up.
option 2. None of the above.

My standard in life is defo #1, however after 0.07 seconds of consideration I elected on this occasion for #2.

[SuuPRlim]

i mean is aspiration nature or nurture?

i have one lad who is ambituous and a "go getter". I have one that would rather stay in bed, do what he wants to do and work to get by. Both brought up the same way

Now both will be fine because their upbringing has been comfortable enough that they'll get by whatever, but I am a firm believer (much more so than when i did the conventional path of school,university,milk round,job, career, family) that school to university or whatever isnt the be all and end all. That things like travel and apprenticeships (and becoming self sufficient) are  a much better preparation for life than coming out at 22yo having only seen the inside of a lecture room and pubs!   

I agree Tighty, the way of the world is that some people are not suited to certain things, if you are dyslexic/really bad with numbers then liklihood is that a career in the city as a stockbroker is not for you, what I mean is what are we (as in our society) doing to say to kids growing up (in any circumstances) hey it doesn't matter if you're not academic there's still a path to a bright future. I think the system is extremely boring an uninspiring and as a result it doesn't engage or inspire someone.

I think aspiration is close to 100% Nurture, if you have two kids with identical personalities (impossible I know but hypothetically) and one of them gets told that whatever he wants IS possible, that he has to work hard etc but then even more importantly he is exposed constantly throughout his growing up to people who have achieved things they want so he see's it is possible. Then the other kid you send with the women from the benefits program, they see so such inspiration, no-one around them, not their parents and all they are told is "school is a waste of time" without some incredible mind power kid #2 is going to end up lazy and un-motivated whereas kid #1 will have every chance of being a "go-getter".

[RED-DOG]

i mean is aspiration nature or nurture?

Take 20 kids from a rough estate in Glasgow and 20 kids from Chipping Norton and you'll have your answer.

[Doobs]

i mean is aspiration nature or nurture?

Take 20 kids from a rough estate in Glasgow and 20 kids from Chipping Norton and you'll have your answer.

It is too simplistic though.  We were poor, but my mum always pushed us, and though my Dad left us and sent feck all, we always had a target to aim at too. 

Though I guess I meet more Chipping Norton types, I still meet others with inspirational tales.

[sovietsong]

Surely the entrepreneur in you offered to run the failed tuck shop on behalf of the school,for a fee?

I actually had a realy bad relationship with (most of) my teachers...I was a bit of a head-strong know-it-all (polite version) and that irritated them. One of my life's purest moments involved a former teacher 5-6 yrs after I left school.

It was head of year, now we'd always had a bit of friction me and this women she never really liked me then right at the death we had a big blow up, stupid story but kinda funny.

It all began on the last few days of actual school (going in for lessons) when a group of guys I was sort of mates with decided that they were going to print off 200 sheets of paper with "GET YOUR BALLS OUT" written on it, and combine them with water balloons and go "attack" a neighbouring school. When the investigation came round the question was "which pupil has a half red/half grey B-reg ford capri (lol) it was hard enough to argue there was another car like this in the country, let alone that it just so happened to be water-ballooning  a local school in the lunch break... My ONLY connection to this incident was it was my computer password which had printed off all the sheets, I was actually in a class when it happened (20 witnesses+teacher) and when i was pulled in about it was genuinely the first i've heard of it, the other lads quickly confessed and directly added I had zero involvement. All this evidence should have lead to a quick release but I was held (by this women) for 3 hours and afterwards told that a decision on whether I'd be welcome in the leavers ball would be made later.

Right now, I am so fucking angry words can't explains, apoplectic with rage I am abso determined to get my own back, the next day i snuck into the register office, and called EXACTLY 50% of year 7 students to the staff room (nicely doubled with this womens office), caused absolute carnage and near on closed the school for an hour, FUCK WITH LIL DAVE AT YOUR OWN PERIL. Unfortunately one of the kids had a panic attack and that put a damper on the prank, he had to go home. I clearly was trying to get my own back on an injustice not knock out any poor kids, so next day I swiftly wrote an apology letter to the kids family, they responded immediately accepting my apology, case closed.

Now my year head absolutely goes after me, she want's to get me expelled, not sit my exams, and ban me from my own leavers ball.  Anyway we have this meeting with the headmaster (I turned up drunk - was so OVER IT at the point) but luckily my dad was on hand to save the day, the head was like "boys being boys" "don't be such a knob in future please young man" etc and that was sposed to be it over, but then she tried to get the kids parents to put in a formal complaint (they refused and called me to tell me) they tried to ban me from the leavers assembly (who cares) but then the only other guy who could operate the sound/lighting equipment broke his hand so they called me 40 mins before ans asked my to do it, which I did

Next thing i see this women in weatherspoons (of all places) and she comes up to me and says that I am;

a) A waste of space
b) going to achieve nothing
c) enjoy my stupid life

I responded with

a) I don't need this stupid school
b) I'll show you
c) You're a c**t


Fast forward ~6 years, I'm in Las Vegas, I'm in Tao nightclub, me and my friend Jon both won huge in the same game earlier (I forget exact numbers, I had some pieces out but defo netted personally over £50k, and Jon won over 100$) I'm coming out of the toilets (hammered) and WHO DO I SEE!!!!!!!!!!

That's right.

Two ways to handle such a situation -

option 1. Dignified, humble, grown up.
option 2. None of the above.

My standard in life is defo #1, however after 0.07 seconds of consideration I elected on this occasion for #2.

Finish the story David, you're getting as bad as Red Dog for the cliffhangers.

[RED-DOG]

i mean is aspiration nature or nurture?

Take 20 kids from a rough estate in Glasgow and 20 kids from Chipping Norton and you'll have your answer.

It is too simplistic though.  We were poor, but my mum always pushed us, and though my Dad left us and sent feck all, we always had a target to aim at too.  

Though I guess I meet more Chipping Norton types, I still meet others with inspirational tales.

It wasn't a definitive answer, there will always be exceptions but by and large you have to agree that people from wealthy, well educated backgrounds are more likely to be aspirational than those from poor, less well educated backgrounds. Nurture > nature.

[SuuPRlim]

I think it's tough to argue that the more privileged your up-bringing then the better chances of "success" (there is obviously no =/= defintion for success) opportunities are going to largely be more readily available to you, also your mindset is going to be altered greatly, growing up around wealth is going to put you in a different frame of mind to growing up around poverty, you'll get a different perspective on life seeing people drive Bentleys to the office instead of the bus to the job-centre.

MY question to blonde it, what should be being done to help the situation?

[SuuPRlim]

Surely the entrepreneur in you offered to run the failed tuck shop on behalf of the school,for a fee?

I actually had a realy bad relationship with (most of) my teachers...I was a bit of a head-strong know-it-all (polite version) and that irritated them. One of my life's purest moments involved a former teacher 5-6 yrs after I left school.

It was head of year, now we'd always had a bit of friction me and this women she never really liked me then right at the death we had a big blow up, stupid story but kinda funny.

It all began on the last few days of actual school (going in for lessons) when a group of guys I was sort of mates with decided that they were going to print off 200 sheets of paper with "GET YOUR BALLS OUT" written on it, and combine them with water balloons and go "attack" a neighbouring school. When the investigation came round the question was "which pupil has a half red/half grey B-reg ford capri (lol) it was hard enough to argue there was another car like this in the country, let alone that it just so happened to be water-ballooning  a local school in the lunch break... My ONLY connection to this incident was it was my computer password which had printed off all the sheets, I was actually in a class when it happened (20 witnesses+teacher) and when i was pulled in about it was genuinely the first i've heard of it, the other lads quickly confessed and directly added I had zero involvement. All this evidence should have lead to a quick release but I was held (by this women) for 3 hours and afterwards told that a decision on whether I'd be welcome in the leavers ball would be made later.

Right now, I am so fucking angry words can't explains, apoplectic with rage I am abso determined to get my own back, the next day i snuck into the register office, and called EXACTLY 50% of year 7 students to the staff room (nicely doubled with this womens office), caused absolute carnage and near on closed the school for an hour, FUCK WITH LIL DAVE AT YOUR OWN PERIL. Unfortunately one of the kids had a panic attack and that put a damper on the prank, he had to go home. I clearly was trying to get my own back on an injustice not knock out any poor kids, so next day I swiftly wrote an apology letter to the kids family, they responded immediately accepting my apology, case closed.

Now my year head absolutely goes after me, she want's to get me expelled, not sit my exams, and ban me from my own leavers ball.  Anyway we have this meeting with the headmaster (I turned up drunk - was so OVER IT at the point) but luckily my dad was on hand to save the day, the head was like "boys being boys" "don't be such a knob in future please young man" etc and that was sposed to be it over, but then she tried to get the kids parents to put in a formal complaint (they refused and called me to tell me) they tried to ban me from the leavers assembly (who cares) but then the only other guy who could operate the sound/lighting equipment broke his hand so they called me 40 mins before ans asked my to do it, which I did

Next thing i see this women in weatherspoons (of all places) and she comes up to me and says that I am;

a) A waste of space
b) going to achieve nothing
c) enjoy my stupid life

I responded with

a) I don't need this stupid school
b) I'll show you
c) You're a c**t


Fast forward ~6 years, I'm in Las Vegas, I'm in Tao nightclub, me and my friend Jon both won huge in the same game earlier (I forget exact numbers, I had some pieces out but defo netted personally over £50k, and Jon won over 100$) I'm coming out of the toilets (hammered) and WHO DO I SEE!!!!!!!!!!

That's right.

Two ways to handle such a situation -

option 1. Dignified, humble, grown up.
option 2. None of the above.

My standard in life is defo #1, however after 0.07 seconds of consideration I elected on this occasion for #2.

Finish the story David, you're getting as bad as Red Dog for the cliffhangers.

I basically highlighted the irony that she told me I was going to be a failure and here i was, in vegas for 7 weeks at one of the best tables in the club, I was incredibly smug, highly obnoxious and almost certainly more a little bit of a bellend, and I make no apologies for it

Oh and I "did it all without her stupid A-Levels" I defo mentioned that as well lol

[Doobs]

i mean is aspiration nature or nurture?

Take 20 kids from a rough estate in Glasgow and 20 kids from Chipping Norton and you'll have your answer.

It is too simplistic though.  We were poor, but my mum always pushed us, and though my Dad left us and sent feck all, we always had a target to aim at too.  

Though I guess I meet more Chipping Norton types, I still meet others with inspirational tales.

It wasn't a definitive answer, there will always be exceptions but by and large you have to agree that people from wealthy, well educated backgrounds are more likely to be aspirational than those from poor, less well educated backgrounds. Nurture > nature.

I agree with all that, until the last sentence.  There are going to be plenty of rich kids who fail because they are a bit thick or because their parents never pushed them or pushed them in the wrong way. 

Also success isn't something that is easily measured.  Having lots of money and no friends and a miserable life isn't better than having little money, but a close family and lots of friends. 

Some people will read your posts and think you have little, others will think you have got the lot.

[SuuPRlim]

You know, writing that back, it was fkn ridiculous, they held me there in that after school thing for 3 hours after school, and within the first 5 minutes of that debacle she's been told by everyone in the room I had nothing to do with it AND i had a rock solid alibi (in class with a teacher and however many students) Not to mention there was 4 of them in a 30 yr old car with no back seat how the hell was I sposed to have fit in!? Shouldn't have left my computer password logged in, sure whatever.

It was pure spite that she kept me there, pure childish spite. Still fkn raging about it 11 years on lol. She tried to get me expelled and not sit my A-Levels after it was all sorted as well. Why someone do that...

[SuuPRlim]

i mean is aspiration nature or nurture?

Take 20 kids from a rough estate in Glasgow and 20 kids from Chipping Norton and you'll have your answer.

It is too simplistic though.  We were poor, but my mum always pushed us, and though my Dad left us and sent feck all, we always had a target to aim at too.  

Though I guess I meet more Chipping Norton types, I still meet others with inspirational tales.

It wasn't a definitive answer, there will always be exceptions but by and large you have to agree that people from wealthy, well educated backgrounds are more likely to be aspirational than those from poor, less well educated backgrounds. Nurture > nature.

I agree with all that, until the last sentence.  There are going to be plenty of rich kids who fail because they are a bit thick or because their parents never pushed them or pushed them in the wrong way. 

Also success isn't something that is easily measured.  Having lots of money and no friends and a miserable life isn't better than having little money, but a close family and lots of friends. 

Some people will read your posts and think you have little, others will think you have got the lot.

Very true, and as people grow up the experiences they have, the circumstances they endure and the people they meet will shape their perceptions of what is really important to them. That's one of the coolest things really.

But when you're young and so easily influenced by whats around you, it's just as easy to be convinced about what you can you as what you can't do.

Don't get me wrong I think the welfare system is fantastic and I'm very proud to be in a country that offers it, but all it seems to do is financially support (I wanted to say prop-up but its not the right saying) people who aren't making it work supporting themselves, when it should be encouraging people that they can achieve things, life hasn't just dealt them a bad hand and they have to live with it. This attitude though is bread through generations and starts from very young.

I think the government should be encouraging enterprise, grass roots success could show people that you can achieve things you really want - because they can see someone doing it!

[RED-DOG]

i mean is aspiration nature or nurture?

Take 20 kids from a rough estate in Glasgow and 20 kids from Chipping Norton and you'll have your answer.

It is too simplistic though.  We were poor, but my mum always pushed us, and though my Dad left us and sent feck all, we always had a target to aim at too.  

Though I guess I meet more Chipping Norton types, I still meet others with inspirational tales.

It wasn't a definitive answer, there will always be exceptions but by and large you have to agree that people from wealthy, well educated backgrounds are more likely to be aspirational than those from poor, less well educated backgrounds. Nurture > nature.

I agree with all that, until the last sentence.  There are going to be plenty of rich kids who fail because they are a bit thick or because their parents never pushed them or pushed them in the wrong way. 

Also success isn't something that is easily measured.  Having lots of money and no friends and a miserable life isn't better than having little money, but a close family and lots of friends. 

Some people will read your posts and think you have little, others will think you have got the lot.

With respect though, the question wasn't about achievement, it was about aspiration.