Blonde will make you STRONG

[EvilPie]

@Ant - Regarding your stiffness/soreness have you reviewed your dietary requirements.   If your training so hard your body needs fuelled properly to recover.   

I'd suggest keeping a food diary for a week and then posting here and perhaps we can suggest some changes that will help.   

I mentioned earlier in this thread that with my lifters I don't tend to offer indepth dietary/nutrition advice but their are fundamentals to good training.   We need to be eating regularly and often - smaller portions also help - if training sem-hard we should be trying to have protein with each meal.  Carbs should be ate predominately before training, not right before but say 60 - 45 minutes.  You need good sources of Iron/Zinc it helps with performance and recovery.   I'd also try adding in good glycogens - helps with recovery and fuelling the muscles so fatigue doesn't set in.   You can obviously buy supps for many of these things, personally I am reticent to recommend supplements to anyone who isn't training competitively or who doesn't have a balanced diet.   Nothing worse than seeing guys stroll around a commercial gym talking about protein when they haven't a clue of how to use it, when to take in or who are just technically bad at every exercise - as no matter how much protein they take they still risk the chance of massive injury. 

As iRaise says as well though you need to be at ease in the mind so cutting out stress/worry and making sure your getting plenty of sleep, it's one of the biggest aides to recovery.   

I'm guessing you haven't read the thread thoroughly yet?

You have absolutely no idea what you've just done do you.......

[EvilPie]

ATG squats...... Ouch!!

Going very steady with these at the moment as they're very new to me. I've never gone below parallel and now I'm going really low. Max weight is 80kg for now and getting 6 decent reps out before I get a bit unsteady. Once the form goes I'm stopping so as not to risk any injuries.

Hope I can make it on Sunday as I'd like to get a form check for my squats.

ATG is never easy. Big big tester.

Yeah for sure, let us know, because I can come around when you are free.

ATG was perhaps a slight exaggeration..... They were as low as I can possibly go without raising my heels or having my feet too far apart. Still feeling it today though especially in my calves which never used to get hit doing squats to the depth I've previously managed.

My glutes and hip flexors were really sore yesterday so I rolled round on one of these for a while:



It's a dog chew which seems to have just the right amount of 'give'. Works really well for me especially on the glutes which feel loads better today.

What time are you and Sean training? Only problem I have is I'm possibly going out Saturday night for a friend's birthday. It's a meal based evening so shouldn't be too much alcohol involved but I still think I'll struggle if training's early.

[PokerBroker]

@Ant - Regarding your stiffness/soreness have you reviewed your dietary requirements.   If your training so hard your body needs fuelled properly to recover.   

I'd suggest keeping a food diary for a week and then posting here and perhaps we can suggest some changes that will help.   

I mentioned earlier in this thread that with my lifters I don't tend to offer indepth dietary/nutrition advice but their are fundamentals to good training.   We need to be eating regularly and often - smaller portions also help - if training sem-hard we should be trying to have protein with each meal.  Carbs should be ate predominately before training, not right before but say 60 - 45 minutes.  You need good sources of Iron/Zinc it helps with performance and recovery.   I'd also try adding in good glycogens - helps with recovery and fuelling the muscles so fatigue doesn't set in.   You can obviously buy supps for many of these things, personally I am reticent to recommend supplements to anyone who isn't training competitively or who doesn't have a balanced diet.   Nothing worse than seeing guys stroll around a commercial gym talking about protein when they haven't a clue of how to use it, when to take in or who are just technically bad at every exercise - as no matter how much protein they take they still risk the chance of massive injury. 

As iRaise says as well though you need to be at ease in the mind so cutting out stress/worry and making sure your getting plenty of sleep, it's one of the biggest aides to recovery.   

I'm guessing you haven't read the thread thoroughly yet?

You have absolutely no idea what you've just done do you.......

I've read a fair bit, but not every post no.   

Cam of worms?

I like the Kong idea, wouldn't have thought of that.  I hope you cleaned it out though as you wouldn't want the dog trying to get to it when you were using it :-) 

[Marky147]

@Ant - Regarding your stiffness/soreness have you reviewed your dietary requirements.   If your training so hard your body needs fuelled properly to recover.   

I'd suggest keeping a food diary for a week and then posting here and perhaps we can suggest some changes that will help.   

I mentioned earlier in this thread that with my lifters I don't tend to offer indepth dietary/nutrition advice but their are fundamentals to good training.   We need to be eating regularly and often - smaller portions also help - if training sem-hard we should be trying to have protein with each meal.  Carbs should be ate predominately before training, not right before but say 60 - 45 minutes.  You need good sources of Iron/Zinc it helps with performance and recovery.   I'd also try adding in good glycogens - helps with recovery and fuelling the muscles so fatigue doesn't set in.   You can obviously buy supps for many of these things, personally I am reticent to recommend supplements to anyone who isn't training competitively or who doesn't have a balanced diet.   Nothing worse than seeing guys stroll around a commercial gym talking about protein when they haven't a clue of how to use it, when to take in or who are just technically bad at every exercise - as no matter how much protein they take they still risk the chance of massive injury. 

As iRaise says as well though you need to be at ease in the mind so cutting out stress/worry and making sure your getting plenty of sleep, it's one of the biggest aides to recovery.   

I'm guessing you haven't read the thread thoroughly yet?

You have absolutely no idea what you've just done do you.......

I've read a fair bit, but not every post no.   

Cam of worms?

I like the Kong idea, wouldn't have thought of that.  I hope you cleaned it out though as you wouldn't want the dog trying to get to it when you were using it :-) 

Could be an understatement

[EvilPie]

@Ant - Regarding your stiffness/soreness have you reviewed your dietary requirements.   If your training so hard your body needs fuelled properly to recover.   

I'd suggest keeping a food diary for a week and then posting here and perhaps we can suggest some changes that will help.   

I mentioned earlier in this thread that with my lifters I don't tend to offer indepth dietary/nutrition advice but their are fundamentals to good training.   We need to be eating regularly and often - smaller portions also help - if training sem-hard we should be trying to have protein with each meal.  Carbs should be ate predominately before training, not right before but say 60 - 45 minutes.  You need good sources of Iron/Zinc it helps with performance and recovery.   I'd also try adding in good glycogens - helps with recovery and fuelling the muscles so fatigue doesn't set in.   You can obviously buy supps for many of these things, personally I am reticent to recommend supplements to anyone who isn't training competitively or who doesn't have a balanced diet.   Nothing worse than seeing guys stroll around a commercial gym talking about protein when they haven't a clue of how to use it, when to take in or who are just technically bad at every exercise - as no matter how much protein they take they still risk the chance of massive injury. 

As iRaise says as well though you need to be at ease in the mind so cutting out stress/worry and making sure your getting plenty of sleep, it's one of the biggest aides to recovery.   

I'm guessing you haven't read the thread thoroughly yet?

You have absolutely no idea what you've just done do you.......

I've read a fair bit, but not every post no.   

Cam of worms?

I like the Kong idea, wouldn't have thought of that.  I hope you cleaned it out though as you wouldn't want the dog trying to get to it when you were using it :-) 

Could be an understatement

Do Quorn do a worms range?

[Marky147]

@Ant - Regarding your stiffness/soreness have you reviewed your dietary requirements.   If your training so hard your body needs fuelled properly to recover.   

I'd suggest keeping a food diary for a week and then posting here and perhaps we can suggest some changes that will help.   

I mentioned earlier in this thread that with my lifters I don't tend to offer indepth dietary/nutrition advice but their are fundamentals to good training.   We need to be eating regularly and often - smaller portions also help - if training sem-hard we should be trying to have protein with each meal.  Carbs should be ate predominately before training, not right before but say 60 - 45 minutes.  You need good sources of Iron/Zinc it helps with performance and recovery.   I'd also try adding in good glycogens - helps with recovery and fuelling the muscles so fatigue doesn't set in.   You can obviously buy supps for many of these things, personally I am reticent to recommend supplements to anyone who isn't training competitively or who doesn't have a balanced diet.   Nothing worse than seeing guys stroll around a commercial gym talking about protein when they haven't a clue of how to use it, when to take in or who are just technically bad at every exercise - as no matter how much protein they take they still risk the chance of massive injury. 

As iRaise says as well though you need to be at ease in the mind so cutting out stress/worry and making sure your getting plenty of sleep, it's one of the biggest aides to recovery.   

I'm guessing you haven't read the thread thoroughly yet?

You have absolutely no idea what you've just done do you.......

I've read a fair bit, but not every post no.   

Cam of worms?

I like the Kong idea, wouldn't have thought of that.  I hope you cleaned it out though as you wouldn't want the dog trying to get to it when you were using it :-) 

Could be an understatement

Do Quorn do a worms range?

[PokerBroker]

Oh one of them?

[Marky147]

Oh one of them?

For balance, Ant has had ridic results in a short time.

[EvilPie]

Oh one of them?

We give Ant a gentle ribbing occasionally but as Marky says his results have been nothing short of incredible.

He's lost an amazing amount of weight but is struggling a bit more with making the muscular gains he was perhaps expecting now that he's in that phase.

Have you ever come across any vegetarians in your training?

[PokerBroker]

Oh one of them?

We give Ant a gentle ribbing occasionally but as Marky says his results have been nothing short of incredible.

He's lost an amazing amount of weight but is struggling a bit more with making the muscular gains he was perhaps expecting now that he's in that phase.

Have you ever come across any vegetarians in your training?

To be honest, I haven't.   I have read a few articles about Veggies but I don't think it's at all possible to properly develop muscle/bulk up and maintain strength without a balanced diet.   A balanced diet in my opinion has to contain meat - not just for protein - but there are many other nutrients that meat provides us with both red and white. 

I may sound slightly ignorant, but if you put a meat eater and a non meat eater on the same work-out routine and matched them fairly closely in terms of physique, age, fitness levels, weight etc I am pretty confident that the meat eater would have the greater improvement in strength and muscle.   

I can understand why a non meat eater would lose weight quicker as long as they were sticking to a healthy eating plan.   

Natural proteins and minerals that come from meat are needed and can't be replicated to a 100% in a Lab. 

[Ant040689]

Saw the posts yesterday Evilpie yesterday but only had time to post today and it gave me a great laugh, so wpwp.

Love the ribbing, all is good with the world you bunch of meatheads

@iraise I wracked my brains about the reason for the stiffness and it was the change up in training imo. I remember when i did squats for the first time recently and i was out of action for about 5 days to let that settle, before i could go back on them and for that not to be an issue anymore. I think it is the same as when i was 16 going to the gym and using the abductor machine for the first time, no way you do that movement in a normal range of motion generally and i was stiff for about a week.

So this links to me playing on Sunday for a full 90 mins as a striker, putting in a lot of 100% sprints in and not covering that at all in the training thus far. So I have been stiff. I am not anymore and feel great, but annoyingly i headered the ball about 8 times during the game about 2 weeks after a concussion and i have got symptoms back again (so i am taking it easy until fully recovered), so i might just knock outfield football on the head (awesome pun). Will stick to goalkeeping where granted you can be smacked in the head for a host of other reasons, but i had trouble with the top of my head mainly being sore, so flick ons up front made me feel like shit, but using my forehead was fine. Can't see how i could get hit on the top of the head in goal, but im sure i will find a way.
 
So I am going to put it down to doing aggressive movements i haven't trained for, because up until now while i started the training my recovery generally has been excellent. If it persists though, I am not afraid to alter the macros of my diet to help things out. It's just that i like the way I eat and all was going well, so why not just stick to it for now. I respect your views of course, I just think i can get my goals this way as well.

@evilpie and Marky - thanks for the praise, nice one. For Powerbroker it was at 6'4 from 22st 6lbs to a leanish 14st 10lbs (i think, i haven't weighed myself in a while) currently with a vegan whole foods plant based diet with no oils, salt, caffeine or processed sugar. I mainly eat oats, brown rice, legumes, vegetables, fruit and potatoes. Macros are probably around 80/10/10 carbs, protein, fat. Successful because you don't need to count calories, you can eat as much as you want and generally lose weight, as the foods are hugely nutritionally dense per calorie so you are full from less calories generally.

@evilpie It is debatable whether or not i am having issues with muscle building. I am not sure what a normal progression is and if i am below a curve. I know i have built good muscle thus far, and what can't be questioned is how lean i am getting, which was more important to me than gaining mass, as not many keepers are that big. Not an annoyed reaction by me by any means, just that any problems i often come up with on this thread are normally partnered with good muscle gaining progress in the background, so i am probably on target for my expectations, rather than thinking it is slowed, but i can understand how i could have easily misled here. It is interesting though, as i have said before that the reduction in waist and gains in muscle has been met with loose skin mainly around the bottom of my gut that i don't know whether or not it is fat or loose skin lol. So i am just going to carry on and see what happens. If it is mainly loose skin i hope with time it might settle back in and if it doesn't then i don't think it will be that much of an issue towards athletic goals, just aesthetically, but i don't care too much about that.

@powerbroker Vegans can achieve as good as or better results than those following any other diet. It is more an issue of macros i imagine, and I still don't know nor have i properly studied what amount of protein is necessary for whatever goals. Mainly because i have seen lots of examples of guys, eating as i do, and looking really lean and athletic, perhaps not hugely big muscularly and strong, but I am not going for that. I know of Ryan Nelson who claims to have 70/20/10, (which is a lot more protein than I), carbs to protein to fat as a vegan and he has a huge physique.

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_nelson

Many others on the profiles section of the above site eat as i do and look pretty good. I am getting there, I think it is a matter of time.

You've got Barney du Plessis and Patrik Baboumian as well that are hugely strong too.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/08/20/15-vegan-bodybuilders-proving-that-you-can-be-meat-free-and-strong-5349931/

It is awesome for feelings of natural health too. It just feels right when before it didn't. Not trying to impose that view at all, just personally. Could easily have had some sort of meat/dairy intolerance that contributed to the obesity.

[iRaise]

Would be very careful quoting bodybuilders, as they are almost certainly using added aids.

Disagree with eating every few hours/carbs around meals. It may make some difference to some individuals, but that 'science' is based on hear say in the gym. Personal preference comes in, I eat carbs with every meal, and eat four meals a day. So I eat every 4 hours. Likewise when I am not at home I can eat every 5-6 hours and drop to three meals. I did use to do eat every 2 hours, protein with every meal. So i have experience with both, and personally it comes down to personal preference. Professionally speaking, it still comes down to personal preference.

Some people just love the eat very two hours/chicken veg, and it works for them more because they think they are 'grinding' and stick to it. Almost exactly the same principles with fasted cardio.

We are incredibly good at adapting/surviving. There are VERY few absolutes in training and nutrition, there are however a tonne of principles.

I would always urge to get the 2g per kg BW of protein in, but even that is a guideline as opposed to an absolute. There is obviously a huge chance that if you under eat protein you won't build muscle. But some people are just freaks, they can eat low protein and build muscle just because they are evolutionarily advanced. Muscle/strength building (naturally) is just an adaption to life/stimuli (that is the same if it isn't natural, but obviously you uncap your genetic potential if you use some help).

@Ant, I have no idea your frequency of DOMS but it shouldn't be frequent. If you are using steady progression in your lifts you could argue you may go without it. (NOT a bad thing).

[muckthenuts]

I deliberately sat on the machines today and did 5x5. Usually i'd only ever use them on a day i felt particularly tired from work and wanted to switch my brain off and lift, but i've really felt good using them lately. Something to do with the weight being stabilised and giving me the freedom to push much harder than i can with a free weight. I really enjoyed it today and felt great afterwards too.

I've already asked Sean for his opinion on machines (i ask him like a million questions a day ) but if anyone else has any thoughts on this feel free to share. I still use barbells for squats and deadlifts (obv) and my goal at present is to get stronger.

I can finally do a decent amount of unassisted pullups too. Those are fun. Tried a wide grip one and managed about half haha. Will keep at it.

[PokerBroker]

I deliberately sat on the machines today and did 5x5. Usually i'd only ever use them on a day i felt particularly tired from work and wanted to switch my brain off and lift, but i've really felt good using them lately. Something to do with the weight being stabilised and giving me the freedom to push much harder than i can with a free weight. I really enjoyed it today and felt great afterwards too.

I've already asked Sean for his opinion on machines (i ask him like a million questions a day ) but if anyone else has any thoughts on this feel free to share. I still use barbells for squats and deadlifts (obv) and my goal at present is to get stronger.

I can finally do a decent amount of unassisted pullups too. Those are fun. Tried a wide grip one and managed about half haha. Will keep at it.

They are obviously useful for general fitness and working certain muscle groups that gym users feel uncomfortable working with free weights. 

The downside, you don't get the same range of movement.   I don't believe your working the muscles as well as free weights do - the text books say users are "important stabilizing muscle groups" .   I'd say machines are more designed for casual gym users than for anyone really wanting to make massive diferences to all round fitness and well being.  Resistance Machines do play a key part in increasing strength and size though.   There is an arguement for using a combination of free weight and machine.   My preference though coming from a Weightlifting/Strength training back ground is free weights are better overall for a variety of reasons.  Notably - variation, not really restricted to where you train, normally less busy (in commercial gyms), functionality, stabilizing those key small muscles/joints machnes miss out.  The arguement has been round for years though and I think it really comes down to personal preference.   The one thing I'd say  about machine is the more recently designed ones are becoming better.   

[iRaise]

I deliberately sat on the machines today and did 5x5. Usually i'd only ever use them on a day i felt particularly tired from work and wanted to switch my brain off and lift, but i've really felt good using them lately. Something to do with the weight being stabilised and giving me the freedom to push much harder than i can with a free weight. I really enjoyed it today and felt great afterwards too.

I've already asked Sean for his opinion on machines (i ask him like a million questions a day ) but if anyone else has any thoughts on this feel free to share. I still use barbells for squats and deadlifts (obv) and my goal at present is to get stronger.

I can finally do a decent amount of unassisted pullups too. Those are fun. Tried a wide grip one and managed about half haha. Will keep at it.

Agree with alot of what PokerBroker says, the designs are getting much better. Some of the old stuff is just so awkward. I don't have a major problem with machines but as ever its context. I still think the main lifts should be considered, or at least a variation. And then use machine as more targeted work. I just did not have the focus to do DB press yesterday so just switched it to a machine. I think some of the hammer strength stuff is really good.

Getting stronger is a really lose term too. I mean you could use every machine with progression and get stronger.

I say I want to get stronger, what I mean is I want to OHP and deadlift more. I am sure we all have our variations of strength.

I am going to take the squat out of my program I think for a few weeks, just because I am bored of it, I even took the deadlift out this time last year. Mixing things up is rarely bad as long as you follow progression and balance in your programs.

Was it Sean or someone I know went through a stage of replacing every barbell exercise with DB for like 8 weeks. Just to totally change it up.

Long story short, who cares as long as you carry on.