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Ant040689
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« Reply #405 on: December 29, 2015, 09:03:49 AM »

I hope to offer a real left field option to you Iraise if I manage to lol my way to sub 10% body fat and still be around 100kg.

The progression by which I'm getting lean is promising and this is with a by no means optimised program. I'm happy to just trial and error tbh and am easy enough knowing that the most important thing I am showing is application and positive intent even though my knowledge is admittedly very hazy.

One thing that is interesting in the lean look is the wondering whether or not I have fat or loose skin on me. The plan is to keep at a good routine for 3 more months, see if it all tucks in and if i am still confused, get a bodypod measurement for £50 in London. Callipers not being very effective when loose skin is involved. So if the % reads around 10% and I still don't look THAT lean I then know what's what.

Recently realised I probably have been overeating unnecessarily and break up my meals more into smaller ones to avoid lethargy and better lean gains, which has helped. Definitely overcoming a habit developed and ingrained through my obesity days with that one.

On the weightlifting side the advice you put forward Evilpie on good form with chin ups made me think more broadly with form everywhere. I think i have been swinging a fair few weights on routines and I am just going to lower the weight to something where I can get the form spot on and not rush into raising weights out of ego.

The above rang true when you said not to jump into any pull ups and I tried this and I couldn't complete even one, whereas with the jump I could ha. Showing how far I need to go lol. I rage tilted went on the lat pull down machine just after but I know its not the same 😝.

On overtraining I think I am with you as well. I think I am going to reduce the sets I do weekly and if anything up the cardio if i want to train more. So upper body/legs+cardio on alternate days with the intention of 6 days a week but the allowance of only 4. On rest days though a 10 mins static full body routine is crucial.

The modest numbers I have currently are:

Dumbbell bench press: 12.5kg 4x8
Horizontal pull: 25kg 4x8
Shoulder press: 15kg 4x8
Lat pull down : level 10/25 4x8

So those 4 and maybe one set of a few different things to keep certain areas buzzing lightly. So that should all be done in under an hour then I have 40 mins warm up and down.

On leg day I freestyle with different types of sets and go hard for 40 mins with intense bike work and time for stretches here too.

Let's see how that unfolds when I start today after about a week layoff over Xmas.
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iRaise
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« Reply #406 on: December 29, 2015, 11:00:35 AM »

I hope to offer a real left field option to you Iraise if I manage to lol my way to sub 10% body fat and still be around 100kg.



The 100kg and 10% were just numbers. It is tough to accurately measure what 10%, for example AJ (boxer) is clearly a beast and I read somewhere he was around 14-16%. So some people can look incredibly with ah high %.

Of course there are genetic freaks who can, thats evolution I guess. But the science is overwhelmingly not in your favour. That sounds really negative, which isn't ideal, but I can't think of a better way to say it?

Trial and error is the way everyone uses to start with so wouldn't worry about that.

I honestly wouldn't worry about body fat. You either look/perform good or you don't. You may have a problem with skin, I know someone who comes to see me and they have just had excess skin removed. I haven't seen them yet, but looking forward to seeing the results. I think you have to lose weight really slowly to avoid xs skin, but even then its not a guarantee. I guess that is genetics too, in how well your skin returns to normal. But I wouldn't worry to much about it, just focus on the process. What will be, will probably be with that one.
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Ant040689
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« Reply #407 on: December 29, 2015, 05:03:50 PM »

I hope to offer a real left field option to you Iraise if I manage to lol my way to sub 10% body fat and still be around 100kg.



The 100kg and 10% were just numbers. It is tough to accurately measure what 10%, for example AJ (boxer) is clearly a beast and I read somewhere he was around 14-16%. So some people can look incredibly with ah high %.

Of course there are genetic freaks who can, thats evolution I guess. But the science is overwhelmingly not in your favour. That sounds really negative, which isn't ideal, but I can't think of a better way to say it?

Trial and error is the way everyone uses to start with so wouldn't worry about that.

I honestly wouldn't worry about body fat. You either look/perform good or you don't. You may have a problem with skin, I know someone who comes to see me and they have just had excess skin removed. I haven't seen them yet, but looking forward to seeing the results. I think you have to lose weight really slowly to avoid xs skin, but even then its not a guarantee. I guess that is genetics too, in how well your skin returns to normal. But I wouldn't worry to much about it, just focus on the process. What will be, will probably be with that one.

Yup that is my attitude with it.

I would want the bf measurement though purely for me to relax about it all knowing if it was close to 10% then I'm doing well. Without that perhaps I don't get as positive feedback from the way I look.

You've said body fat shouldn't be a thing to worry about though because it comes up differently on different people and you should go off of the way you look. I will probably do both. I guess I am curious for a body fat reading anyway and think ultimately its harmless getting it done. I have taken your warning on board about considering it too highly though.

The skin is all tucking in well anyway with the gym as its progressed but my gut was so large before I'm not sure it will be perfect. I actually don't care a great deal about the aesthetics and I think I would only ever get surgery on it for practical reasons, ie, you can have up to 7 lbs of it on your body weighing you down when running and whatnot. Maybe i would consider it more for increased freedom of movement. I will see later on down the road if that pisses me off.

I lost the weight quite slowly so i I will have to see with it 👍

Buying a pair of 36' jeans today. I think I was a easy 37/38 at the start of gymming. Progression. Boom.
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muckthenuts
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« Reply #408 on: December 29, 2015, 05:19:52 PM »

So i'm back doing 5x5. I'm going to try and kick things up a notch this time though by adding some assistance work (dips, chins, hanging leg raises) and doing 10 minutes of intense cardio at the end of each session.

I'm going to be pretty pressed for time over the next few months so wish to avoid having to hang around for equipment if it's unavailable. Specifically could i get some advice regarding the best alternative exercise for deadlifts? If the squat rack is unavailable i plan to hit up the leg press, and the rest of the movements (bench, row, ohp) i should be ok to use dumbbells if i can't get a barbell.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 05:21:25 PM by muckthenuts » Logged
iRaise
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« Reply #409 on: December 29, 2015, 05:34:35 PM »

I hope to offer a real left field option to you Iraise if I manage to lol my way to sub 10% body fat and still be around 100kg.





You've said body fat shouldn't be a thing to worry about though because it comes up differently on different people and you should go off of the way you look. I will probably do both. I guess I am curious for a body fat reading anyway and think ultimately its harmless getting it done. I have taken your warning on board about considering it too highly though.



I think the only downside is cost and accuracy. For example I think a DEXA scan is like 600, and widely required as the most accurate, but its 3-8% higher than calipers. So its such a stupid measurement. But yeah, for the first few years it's all I cared about. But go for it, I am having so many 'aha' moments of what people told me three years ago. But I only 'wasted' three years. And I had to have those moments. You can't tell me something and expect me to listen. I have to find out myself. I think it is the best way for most people. This way I can massage my ego in like two years time, trolololol.

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Ant040689
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« Reply #410 on: December 29, 2015, 06:13:21 PM »

I hope to offer a real left field option to you Iraise if I manage to lol my way to sub 10% body fat and still be around 100kg.





You've said body fat shouldn't be a thing to worry about though because it comes up differently on different people and you should go off of the way you look. I will probably do both. I guess I am curious for a body fat reading anyway and think ultimately its harmless getting it done. I have taken your warning on board about considering it too highly though.



I think the only downside is cost and accuracy. For example I think a DEXA scan is like 600, and widely required as the most accurate, but its 3-8% higher than calipers. So its such a stupid measurement. But yeah, for the first few years it's all I cared about. But go for it, I am having so many 'aha' moments of what people told me three years ago. But I only 'wasted' three years. And I had to have those moments. You can't tell me something and expect me to listen. I have to find out myself. I think it is the best way for most people. This way I can massage my ego in like two years time, trolololol.



Would be foolish of me to go against your experience there.

I thought a bodypod machine was very accurate, but fair play if it isn't. Think I've been a sucker for an ad campaign in the past or summin.

 I will just crack on without it in my mind.

It's why I post on here to draw from what you guys already know. So nice one.
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Ant040689
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« Reply #411 on: December 29, 2015, 06:19:48 PM »

So i'm back doing 5x5. I'm going to try and kick things up a notch this time though by adding some assistance work (dips, chins, hanging leg raises) and doing 10 minutes of intense cardio at the end of each session.

I'm going to be pretty pressed for time over the next few months so wish to avoid having to hang around for equipment if it's unavailable. Specifically could i get some advice regarding the best alternative exercise for deadlifts? If the squat rack is unavailable i plan to hit up the leg press, and the rest of the movements (bench, row, ohp) i should be ok to use dumbbells if i can't get a barbell.



Hyperextension maybe?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/finder/lookup/filter/muscle/id/5/muscle/lower-back

I do one I can't find myself online. Get a heavy dumbbell on the floor, lean over it engage the lower back to one side with knees bent and pull the dumbbell up straining one side of your lower back. But there may be more effective ones.
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« Reply #412 on: December 29, 2015, 10:23:43 PM »

I don't think bodybod is awful, i mean they can't be massively inaccurate, its just you have to stick to the same one. If you use diff methods you are gonna get very diff results. And all of them use hydration levels, so if you smashed like 5 litres before, and 2 litres the next time, you are gonna get inaccurate results cos of that.

Just focus on performance, if you perform well (and eat well) it literally cannot go wrong.

If it goes wrong, one of those two aren't working.
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« Reply #413 on: December 29, 2015, 10:32:20 PM »

Weighed in at the gym at 94kg today, meaning I have lost weight over Xmas. Made a conscious effort not to pig out so pleased.


Bad news, failed by first ever heavy squat.

1x3 120kg
1x3 130kg
1x1.5 135kg. Obv aiming for three there but didn't come back up. Annoying, but set myself 140 for 3x3 by end of feb. So a good bench mark. Gonna hammer the accessory movements from now on. Might even have to box squat with weight Matt 

Definitely loving the 3x3 stuff I am doing, and until today had linear progress. So don't mind having a mini blip. Wanna push 90kg by end of Feb too, obviously having skittles everyday to keep the clean eating warriors happy.

Want to get over to Notts in Feb for a session with Sean, if anyone else is around could go for something? Everyone choices a exercise/rep/set scheme and see where we get to?
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« Reply #414 on: December 30, 2015, 01:58:55 PM »

Hi guys

Considering whether to join in here as i have started training pretty seriously last 2 months.  Feel like i have the motivation back to train and surprised at how much strength i have retained as i haven't trained seriously for over 10 years for more than a couple of months and then stopped.  Hoping to keep it going for good this time as i am enjoying it as much as i did in my 20's.  Have got my weight down to 18 stone from a peak of over 21 stone 3 years ago.  I started a weight loss update on the slimming thread last year but lost motivation.

Want to get down to 15 stone and get back to how i was at 25.  I am using my old training programme from when i was playing basketball semi pro.  Lot of heavy lifting/core lifts/explosive stuff and lowish reps.  I hardly use machines at all.  Virtually all loose weights.  Easing my way back into it slowly and feel like i want to try some 1 rep max stuff.  Not sure whether 2 months in and my body is ready to push to these extreme levels yet after such a long lay off?  Any thoughts?  

I am interested in what you think my 1 rep max for deadlifting would be given i can do 10 reps to failure at 120kg (no chalk/straps) currently?

At my peak at 25 (15 years ago) i had the following strength levels across 6 reps to failure just to give you an idea of my previous peak levels before i entered the betting industry and my lifestyle totally changed for the worse.  I was 14 stone 12 at this point, in great shape and very lean.  I don't think it is possible to get sub 15 stone now so that is my goal.

Squat 160kg
Deadlift 160kg
Cleans 80kg
Flat bench press 125kg
Dumbell bench press 50kg dumbells
Bicep curl (EZ bar) 55kg
Overhead shoulder press 70kg

Obviously i am nowhere near these levels and will probably never get back to them however well the training goes given i am now 40.  Not sure if these ratios are 'normal' but i have always had much stronger legs and arms than chest/shoulders.  No idea if that comes from playing basketball or just my natural gene pool.  I always felt that i was incredibly weak chest/shoulder pressing compared to other core lifts.

Enjoy reading this thread and it has in a small way helped to motivate me to start lifting again seriously.

My training split is as follows

day 1 - chest/biceps
day 2 - upper back/triceps
day 3 - legs/lower back (deadlifts/cleans/squats all included in here) + shoulders
day 4 - rest

I tend to do 2 sets of 8-10 reps currently pretty much to failure for each exercise.  4/5 diff exercises for the bigger muscle groups (chest/back) and 2/3 for smaller ones (arms).  I have never been a high volume set trainer.  Some of your stories of 25 set work outs baffle me.  I am well and truely in Matt's camp here regarding less sets, more effort to failure and gtfo out of the gym asap once the work is done.

I do 30 mins of Cardio on day 1 and day 2 (after finishing with the weights).  No cardio on leg day as my legs have suffered enough from the heavy lifting.  Heart rate constant at 140bpm then 2 15 minute sauna/steam sessions followed by hot tub after each session.  I train at 8/9am every morning before having breakfast.  I am using promax twice a day and maximuscle cretaine powder to usual levels.  These are the products i used 15 years ago when following this same plan.  Diet is pretty clean with about 200 grams of protein a day on average.  Trying to keep the cals below 2500 a day.  I think in the past i tried to keep the cals too low and kept feeling tired from training and just quit.  I don't want this to happen again.  There is no rush to lose 3 stone.  I just want it to last long term and the training to keep going.

Advice from the pros as to whether this programme will help me lose 3 stone or whether there are other things i can add/change to help achieve this goal.

Cheers in advance
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 02:27:27 PM by arbboy » Logged
iRaise
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« Reply #415 on: December 30, 2015, 04:12:39 PM »

Hi guys

Considering whether to join in here as i have started training pretty seriously last 2 months.  Feel like i have the motivation back to train and surprised at how much strength i have retained as i haven't trained seriously for over 10 years for more than a couple of months and then stopped.  Hoping to keep it going for good this time as i am enjoying it as much as i did in my 20's.  Have got my weight down to 18 stone from a peak of over 21 stone 3 years ago.  I started a weight loss update on the slimming thread last year but lost motivation.

Want to get down to 15 stone and get back to how i was at 25.  I am using my old training programme from when i was playing basketball semi pro.  Lot of heavy lifting/core lifts/explosive stuff and lowish reps.  I hardly use machines at all.  Virtually all loose weights.  Easing my way back into it slowly and feel like i want to try some 1 rep max stuff.  Not sure whether 2 months in and my body is ready to push to these extreme levels yet after such a long lay off?  Any thoughts?  

I am interested in what you think my 1 rep max for deadlifting would be given i can do 10 reps to failure at 120kg (no chalk/straps) currently?

At my peak at 25 (15 years ago) i had the following strength levels across 6 reps to failure just to give you an idea of my previous peak levels before i entered the betting industry and my lifestyle totally changed for the worse.  I was 14 stone 12 at this point, in great shape and very lean.  I don't think it is possible to get sub 15 stone now so that is my goal.

Squat 160kg
Deadlift 160kg
Cleans 80kg
Flat bench press 125kg
Dumbell bench press 50kg dumbells
Bicep curl (EZ bar) 55kg
Overhead shoulder press 70kg

Obviously i am nowhere near these levels and will probably never get back to them however well the training goes given i am now 40.  Not sure if these ratios are 'normal' but i have always had much stronger legs and arms than chest/shoulders.  No idea if that comes from playing basketball or just my natural gene pool.  I always felt that i was incredibly weak chest/shoulder pressing compared to other core lifts.

Enjoy reading this thread and it has in a small way helped to motivate me to start lifting again seriously.

My training split is as follows

day 1 - chest/biceps
day 2 - upper back/triceps
day 3 - legs/lower back (deadlifts/cleans/squats all included in here) + shoulders
day 4 - rest

I tend to do 2 sets of 8-10 reps currently pretty much to failure for each exercise.  4/5 diff exercises for the bigger muscle groups (chest/back) and 2/3 for smaller ones (arms).  I have never been a high volume set trainer.  Some of your stories of 25 set work outs baffle me.  I am well and truely in Matt's camp here regarding less sets, more effort to failure and gtfo out of the gym asap once the work is done.

I do 30 mins of Cardio on day 1 and day 2 (after finishing with the weights).  No cardio on leg day as my legs have suffered enough from the heavy lifting.  Heart rate constant at 140bpm then 2 15 minute sauna/steam sessions followed by hot tub after each session.  I train at 8/9am every morning before having breakfast.  I am using promax twice a day and maximuscle cretaine powder to usual levels.  These are the products i used 15 years ago when following this same plan.  Diet is pretty clean with about 200 grams of protein a day on average.  Trying to keep the cals below 2500 a day.  I think in the past i tried to keep the cals too low and kept feeling tired from training and just quit.  I don't want this to happen again.  There is no rush to lose 3 stone.  I just want it to last long term and the training to keep going.

Advice from the pros as to whether this programme will help me lose 3 stone or whether there are other things i can add/change to help achieve this goal.

Cheers in advance

Sounds like you're gonna kill it. Losing weight is all about energy balance, expend more than you intake.

Losing large amounts and keeping it off requires a sensible energy balance.

I wouldn't rush to go below 2500 kcals but everything else looks pretty good.

Whats the success so far?
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arbboy
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« Reply #416 on: December 30, 2015, 04:20:19 PM »

Hi guys

Considering whether to join in here as i have started training pretty seriously last 2 months.  Feel like i have the motivation back to train and surprised at how much strength i have retained as i haven't trained seriously for over 10 years for more than a couple of months and then stopped.  Hoping to keep it going for good this time as i am enjoying it as much as i did in my 20's.  Have got my weight down to 18 stone from a peak of over 21 stone 3 years ago.  I started a weight loss update on the slimming thread last year but lost motivation.

Want to get down to 15 stone and get back to how i was at 25.  I am using my old training programme from when i was playing basketball semi pro.  Lot of heavy lifting/core lifts/explosive stuff and lowish reps.  I hardly use machines at all.  Virtually all loose weights.  Easing my way back into it slowly and feel like i want to try some 1 rep max stuff.  Not sure whether 2 months in and my body is ready to push to these extreme levels yet after such a long lay off?  Any thoughts?  

I am interested in what you think my 1 rep max for deadlifting would be given i can do 10 reps to failure at 120kg (no chalk/straps) currently?

At my peak at 25 (15 years ago) i had the following strength levels across 6 reps to failure just to give you an idea of my previous peak levels before i entered the betting industry and my lifestyle totally changed for the worse.  I was 14 stone 12 at this point, in great shape and very lean.  I don't think it is possible to get sub 15 stone now so that is my goal.

Squat 160kg
Deadlift 160kg
Cleans 80kg
Flat bench press 125kg
Dumbell bench press 50kg dumbells
Bicep curl (EZ bar) 55kg
Overhead shoulder press 70kg

Obviously i am nowhere near these levels and will probably never get back to them however well the training goes given i am now 40.  Not sure if these ratios are 'normal' but i have always had much stronger legs and arms than chest/shoulders.  No idea if that comes from playing basketball or just my natural gene pool.  I always felt that i was incredibly weak chest/shoulder pressing compared to other core lifts.

Enjoy reading this thread and it has in a small way helped to motivate me to start lifting again seriously.

My training split is as follows

day 1 - chest/biceps
day 2 - upper back/triceps
day 3 - legs/lower back (deadlifts/cleans/squats all included in here) + shoulders
day 4 - rest

I tend to do 2 sets of 8-10 reps currently pretty much to failure for each exercise.  4/5 diff exercises for the bigger muscle groups (chest/back) and 2/3 for smaller ones (arms).  I have never been a high volume set trainer.  Some of your stories of 25 set work outs baffle me.  I am well and truely in Matt's camp here regarding less sets, more effort to failure and gtfo out of the gym asap once the work is done.

I do 30 mins of Cardio on day 1 and day 2 (after finishing with the weights).  No cardio on leg day as my legs have suffered enough from the heavy lifting.  Heart rate constant at 140bpm then 2 15 minute sauna/steam sessions followed by hot tub after each session.  I train at 8/9am every morning before having breakfast.  I am using promax twice a day and maximuscle cretaine powder to usual levels.  These are the products i used 15 years ago when following this same plan.  Diet is pretty clean with about 200 grams of protein a day on average.  Trying to keep the cals below 2500 a day.  I think in the past i tried to keep the cals too low and kept feeling tired from training and just quit.  I don't want this to happen again.  There is no rush to lose 3 stone.  I just want it to last long term and the training to keep going.

Advice from the pros as to whether this programme will help me lose 3 stone or whether there are other things i can add/change to help achieve this goal.

Cheers in advance

Sounds like you're gonna kill it. Losing weight is all about energy balance, expend more than you intake.

Losing large amounts and keeping it off requires a sensible energy balance.

I wouldn't rush to go below 2500 kcals but everything else looks pretty good.

Whats the success so far?

I have lost about 10 lbs in the 2 months since i started if that's what you are asking at the same time as already finding increases in strength from the start.  I feel a million times better, slimmer (jeans that i haven't got into since 2007 fit easily again) and most importantly i am sleeping better which was becoming a problem actually getting to sleep every night before i started training.

How many calories would i be burning a day on average with that routine and my body size?  I imagine even at 2500 cals/day i will still have a fair deficit.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 04:23:19 PM by arbboy » Logged
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« Reply #417 on: December 30, 2015, 09:25:39 PM »

Yeah probably about 3000, but dont quote me, I can work it all out tomorrow if you want? But pretty confident 2500 is a deficit.

Looks good progress, like the way you have set things out.

Looks to me like it is just a matter of time. Keep it up
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« Reply #418 on: January 02, 2016, 01:01:05 PM »

Yeah probably about 3000, but dont quote me, I can work it all out tomorrow if you want? But pretty confident 2500 is a deficit.

Looks good progress, like the way you have set things out.

Looks to me like it is just a matter of time. Keep it up

I have just set things out how i did 15 years ago.  Only difference now is i don't have any basketball games to play inbetween the training.  The routine/splits/supplements are identical.  I am not a huge believer in all these modern day training techniques tbh.  Stick to the basics imo. 
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« Reply #419 on: January 02, 2016, 10:01:32 PM »

So i'm back doing 5x5. I'm going to try and kick things up a notch this time though by adding some assistance work (dips, chins, hanging leg raises) and doing 10 minutes of intense cardio at the end of each session.

I'm going to be pretty pressed for time over the next few months so wish to avoid having to hang around for equipment if it's unavailable. Specifically could i get some advice regarding the best alternative exercise for deadlifts? If the squat rack is unavailable i plan to hit up the leg press, and the rest of the movements (bench, row, ohp) i should be ok to use dumbbells if i can't get a barbell.

You're going to struggle. You can do deadlifts with dumbbells tho if the barbell is taken. Or you could try depth swings with a kettlebell?
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