Cavendish Club- Belfast-Online petition

[The Headcase]

Sean Murphy has posted details of Tuesday's court case on the club website. He has also started an online petition. Anyone interested can view the site or leave a message of support. Log on to
www.thecavendishclub.com

[Ironside]

if you want to show support for a CARD CLUB in belfast sign here



Ironside wishing the Irish boys the best in there fight for a CARD CLUB

[turny]

good luck guys

all from inthebelly.co.uk support you all the way

[I KNOW IT]

Good Luck Guys
regards
Craig

[snoopy1239]

If anyone would like to read more on this topic, please click the link below and find out what popular Irishman Mick McCloskey (Blondeite headcase) has to say:

POLICE RAID BELFAST CLUB - BY MICK McCLOSKEY

ps. Good luck from snoops

[TightEnd]

Copied from another thread...posted today by rob yong


It was really dissapointing to hear another Card Club, The Cavendish, is being procecuted. When I met with the Gaming Board they did tell me that they will shut every single card club down that falls within UK laws so I shouldn't be surprised. However, I do believe that by 2009 (after the 2007 gaming review), there will be new laws for Card Clubs which make it practical for them to run at a modest profit whilst not operating illegally. Unfortnately these laws will not come soon enough for DTD. In real terms these are the rough costs of being legal in the UK:

1. £100,000 in legal and application fees to get a licence (lining the lawyers pockets) plus £10,000 every year "licence renewal"
2. Employ a "compliance officer" to check that a club runs lawfully - say £35,000 per annum
3. Have a casino grey licence holder (who may know bugger all about poker) for every hour the club is open for gaming - say £100,000 per annum
4. Security cameras, procedures etc - say £100,000 investment and £10,000 per annum to maintain.

This just screws any club owner who does not have roulette and blackjack in their card room. Personally, I believe the reasons are more sinister than the "we want poker to be safe for the public so it should be regulated by casinos" excuse. I honestly believe that the casino groups are lobbying the get all these clubs shut down for 2 reasons:

1. If people go to poker only clubs they will lose revenue from their table games (ie. % disposable income on casino games decreases)

2. In the past players have started playing casino games, and then fell into poker when they have noticed the card room, now poker is getting so big that the casino groups see an opportunity to get more customers on their table games by attracting poker only players into their casinos and hoping that these players then "fall into table games" when they are in their environment. Poker can create NEW customers for the casinos on their tables.

Anyway, its all corrupt where big money is involved I'm afraid. There have been many times in my business career when I have seen bribery and corruption in places that it should not be expected exist. However, my club just has to be done by the rule book or I leave myself and everyone involved exposed to these forces that we cannot see, but do exist.

This is my view how the poker economy should work:

1. People starting playing poker lose money to experienced players for the first few years, therefore ensuring that people can make a living as a professional poker player, ONLINE or LIVE.

2. As these beginners improve, they then win money from the new set of beginners, becoming proftable players, and so on and so on.

3. Companies (TV businesses, Poker related businesses, advertisers) who want publicity from Poker to increase their profits should add money to tournament prize pools or subsidise the costs of holding the tournamant, therefore giving players more value. As you become better your entry fee gives you even more value as well.

4. Card Rooms and Online sites are a FACILITY for this process to happen, and should be allowed to make profits to maintain their facility and quality of service, and a modest profit, say 10% per annum, for the owners, who have invested / risked they capital in the company.

5. Payout stuctures should be revised for tournmamants to prevent too many people going broke and keep the money in the poker economy and prevent too much money going out of it (ie. one person willing £250,000 - he or she may never put this back into the community).

6. Poker staff should be able to get tips and earn wages comesurate with their responsibilies. The do a harder job than casino dealers.

In the long term, this will happen, as market forces always reach equilibrium. however, until then we have:

1. Companies ripping off players for the dream of being on TV

2. Casinos pretending they are poker friendly to get you to lose your shirt on their table games.

3. Money going out of the game due to top heavy structures.

4. The Gaming Commison (without knowing it) acting as secret police for the big greedy casino groups.

5. Genuine poker lovers unable to afford to run their card rooms (even just for friends) under current legislation.

6. Card Room staff being treated the same as Casino staff.


Cheers, Rob "Conspiracy Theory" Yong

[AlrightJack]

Some of what Rob says is valid, but painting casinos as evil organisations who have no or little interest in poker other than weaning players to the table games is wide of the mark and somewhat insulting to those cardroom managers in casinos accross the country who have strived to make poker a more central activity within their casinos.

It should also be pointed out that any club operating in that grey area of legality without a license potentially has a considerable advantage over a casino if they can be successful and draw in large numbers of people. Why? The gaming board/commission has no power to regulate them, set the maximum rake, fees, or cluse them down. Shutting such clubs down has to be done by the police - who in most cases (other than the recent Cavendish and Harlow examples) have no inclinations to do so. They can however shut down a casino if it breaks one of the many rules they impose on them.  I think casinos have a legitimate axe to grind when it comes to unlicensed clubs on their doorstep taking their business away and not having to comply with gaming board rules and regs that they have to wrt poker.

I'm not opposed to poker clubs, but I believe that casinos/poker clubs should be able to run games on an equal footing.  As Rob points out, regulations make it very expensive to run a casino/regulated club, yet they are restricted legally in the ways they can make money.  Any Tom, Dick or Sally can open an illegal card room on a fraction of the cost of doing it legitimately and face no instant closure if they over-rake, whereas a casino would lose its license almost instantly if they did the same.

The gaming board/commission are not a KGB acting in the interests of casino groups. If anything, they are a thorn in their side and prevent such organisations from being able to make enough out of poker to justify giving over as much floorspace to poker as they should be. Compare tournies in Vegas where frequently the fee is as much as 25% of the buy in to the 10% (max £50) fee that casinos in the UK are legally allowed to charge and you have the real reason why casinos have not invested as heavily in poker as they might have done under a less strict regime. They are legally not allowed to rip you off.

[onenote]

good luck guys

 

[Wardonkey]

There are 3 things that are holding back the poker industry in the UK and contributing to the current situation where we have casinos trying to compete, despite very restrictive regulation, against totally unregulated cardrooms.

The first is the £50 maximum fee for competitions, surely it is time this was raised.

The second is that casinos can only charge an hourly fee and not rake cash games.

The third is that tipping dealers is prohibited. The biggest problem that casinos face is staffing. It is very difficult to pay people enogh to get them to work all night in a labour intensive service industry and remain profitable.

If these three issues were addressed then casinos would be falling over each other to offer the range of tournaments and cash games that the poker public desires. We would be paying a lttle bit more but we would have a much more satisfactory situation for all concerned.

A side note on tipping; I find it objectionable that when I get a draw from a tournament I am expected to leave a substantial tip for a valet, who has served me 2 cups of instant coffee in 7 hours, but I cannot tip the dealers who have been providing the service that I came to the casino for.  

 

[Ironside]

A side note on tipping; I find it objectionable that when I get a draw from a tournament I am expected to leave a substantial tip for a valet, who has served me 2 cups of instant coffee in 7 hours, but I cannot tip the dealers who have been providing the service that I came to the casino for.  

 

just do as i do dont take a draw from the comp then you dont need to tip substanailly and when you get your 2 cups of coffee dont give them your loose change give them a couple of £ then everyone is happy apart from your bank manager but hey i have been annoying him for the past 20 years so why stop now

[Wardonkey]

It's not the tipping of the valets that I object to. It's the fact that I cannot tip the dealers, whose service I value much more. A valet in a casino can easily earn two or three times that of a dealer despite the fact that they are paid slightly less. Is this right? I think not.