Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)

[DungBeetle]

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=67602.0

Not completely related to this post, but that was my position.

I now have £870 worth of Bitcoin and Eth, about 0.2 of a Bit and 2 and a bit Eth (Everything i've read on Eth suggests that it might overtake Bit as the main currency someday, whether that's because Bit crashes or this rises, I don't know, was up to 330 a coin a few weeks back iirc). Then i've got 150,000 Redd still. Which haven't done too well recently. But considering it started from about £20-40 quid a few years back It's gone well. I bought the laptop i'm writing this on with Bitcoin from aria, and have also sorted a couple of amazon giftcards from somewhere online which got us a few presents for random kids birthday parties from my daughters school.

The point of Bitcoin is that it's decentralised, it seems that people seem to consider it like Gold in that whatever happens to the local markets there will always be a value to it. There's a finite amount of Bitcoin available and it's harder and harder to mine them, so it's a limited currency.

I believe the latest bubble was because of Japan listing it as an official currency (?) Or something similar to that

Okay, but scarcity on its own doesn't create value.  If so people would churn out a new currency every day and it would be worth a fortune as long as you limited supply. 

Isn't decentralised a negative?  Real currencies are worth something in part because they have genuine value behind them?  They are issued by a Government presiding over an economy which produces and exports.  All things being equal if you hold USD then you know someone is always going to have demand for them and there will always be liquidity.  I don't see how that can be said for Bitcoins necessarily in the future.

[neeko]

Two of the main reasons for crypto currency demand recently has been

the Chinese govt banning purchase of foreign currency, so the Chinese people bought bitcoin then sold that to buy sterling / aus dollars to buy London/ Sydney property.

Japanese investors (mrs Watanabe as they are known) need to buy pension funds but 10 year bonds yield 0.08% per year! So they gamble on currency speculation and bitcoin is the latest part of that.

[neeko]

The intrinsic value of crypto currencies is zero.

In early 1637 you could have swapped one tulip bulb for:

Two lasts of wheat (448 florins)
Four lasts of rye (558 florins)
Four fat oxen (480 florins)
Eight fat swine (240 florins)
Twelve fat sheep (120 florins)
Two Hogsheads of wine (70 florins)
Four tuns of beer (32 florins)
Two tuns of butter (192 florins)
One thousands lbs. of cheese (120 florins)
A complete bed (100 florins)
A suit of clothes (80 florins)
A silver drinking-cup (60 florins)

By the following year, you may as well give them away.

(I am not a fan, if you can't guess)

[lucky_scrote]

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=67602.0

Not completely related to this post, but that was my position.

I now have £870 worth of Bitcoin and Eth, about 0.2 of a Bit and 2 and a bit Eth (Everything i've read on Eth suggests that it might overtake Bit as the main currency someday, whether that's because Bit crashes or this rises, I don't know, was up to 330 a coin a few weeks back iirc). Then i've got 150,000 Redd still. Which haven't done too well recently. But considering it started from about £20-40 quid a few years back It's gone well. I bought the laptop i'm writing this on with Bitcoin from aria, and have also sorted a couple of amazon giftcards from somewhere online which got us a few presents for random kids birthday parties from my daughters school.

The point of Bitcoin is that it's decentralised, it seems that people seem to consider it like Gold in that whatever happens to the local markets there will always be a value to it. There's a finite amount of Bitcoin available and it's harder and harder to mine them, so it's a limited currency.

I believe the latest bubble was because of Japan listing it as an official currency (?) Or something similar to that

Okay, but scarcity on its own doesn't create value.  If so people would churn out a new currency every day and it would be worth a fortune as long as you limited supply. 

Isn't decentralised a negative?  Real currencies are worth something in part because they have genuine value behind them?  They are issued by a Government presiding over an economy which produces and exports.  All things being equal if you hold USD then you know someone is always going to have demand for them and there will always be liquidity.  I don't see how that can be said for Bitcoins necessarily in the future.

Government controlling currency is a good thing?

Real currencies worth something because they're backed by what?

FWIW crypto is so much more than just money. There are multiple advantages.

There are of course negatives I can think of over regular money:

Zero regulation means lack of trust
Confusing technology
Difficulty in buying crypto
Not many retailers are even close to accepting it as a payment
Volatile market

These are problems that can and will be resolved as time goes by. Cryptosceptics should watch the video I posted on the first page and it will help you understand a little more about it.

Blockchain technology is internet 2.0

[DungBeetle]

The intrinsic value of crypto currencies is zero.

In early 1637 you could have swapped one tulip bulb for:

Two lasts of wheat (448 florins)
Four lasts of rye (558 florins)
Four fat oxen (480 florins)
Eight fat swine (240 florins)
Twelve fat sheep (120 florins)
Two Hogsheads of wine (70 florins)
Four tuns of beer (32 florins)
Two tuns of butter (192 florins)
One thousands lbs. of cheese (120 florins)
A complete bed (100 florins)
A suit of clothes (80 florins)
A silver drinking-cup (60 florins)

By the following year, you may as well give them away.

(I am not a fan, if you can't guess)

The first recorded asset bubble I believe?  Tulipmania!

[DungBeetle]

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=67602.0

Not completely related to this post, but that was my position.

I now have £870 worth of Bitcoin and Eth, about 0.2 of a Bit and 2 and a bit Eth (Everything i've read on Eth suggests that it might overtake Bit as the main currency someday, whether that's because Bit crashes or this rises, I don't know, was up to 330 a coin a few weeks back iirc). Then i've got 150,000 Redd still. Which haven't done too well recently. But considering it started from about £20-40 quid a few years back It's gone well. I bought the laptop i'm writing this on with Bitcoin from aria, and have also sorted a couple of amazon giftcards from somewhere online which got us a few presents for random kids birthday parties from my daughters school.

The point of Bitcoin is that it's decentralised, it seems that people seem to consider it like Gold in that whatever happens to the local markets there will always be a value to it. There's a finite amount of Bitcoin available and it's harder and harder to mine them, so it's a limited currency.

I believe the latest bubble was because of Japan listing it as an official currency (?) Or something similar to that

Okay, but scarcity on its own doesn't create value.  If so people would churn out a new currency every day and it would be worth a fortune as long as you limited supply. 

Isn't decentralised a negative?  Real currencies are worth something in part because they have genuine value behind them?  They are issued by a Government presiding over an economy which produces and exports.  All things being equal if you hold USD then you know someone is always going to have demand for them and there will always be liquidity.  I don't see how that can be said for Bitcoins necessarily in the future.

Government controlling currency is a good thing?

Real currencies worth something because they're backed by what?

FWIW crypto is so much more than just money. There are multiple advantages.

There are of course negatives I can think of over regular money:

Zero regulation means lack of trust
Confusing technology
Difficulty in buying crypto
Not many retailers are even close to accepting it as a payment
Volatile market

These are problems that can and will be resolved as time goes by. Cryptosceptics should watch the video I posted on the first page and it will help you understand a little more about it.

Blockchain technology is internet 2.0

A Government issuing a currency is absolutely a good thing.  Real currencies are backed by underlying economic activity and hence demand.  If a currency is the accepted medium of exchange for an economy of any reasonable size then you can be reasonably sure that someone will always make you an offer for it.  Accepted there will be fluctuations.

If investors suddenly decide the crypto stuff is no longer flavour of the decade then it is worth zip.   What underlies it?  Nothing - it's all just based on investor perception.

It's not fair to compare Bitcoin to a currency though - it's a commodity.

[lucky_scrote]

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=67602.0

Not completely related to this post, but that was my position.

I now have £870 worth of Bitcoin and Eth, about 0.2 of a Bit and 2 and a bit Eth (Everything i've read on Eth suggests that it might overtake Bit as the main currency someday, whether that's because Bit crashes or this rises, I don't know, was up to 330 a coin a few weeks back iirc). Then i've got 150,000 Redd still. Which haven't done too well recently. But considering it started from about £20-40 quid a few years back It's gone well. I bought the laptop i'm writing this on with Bitcoin from aria, and have also sorted a couple of amazon giftcards from somewhere online which got us a few presents for random kids birthday parties from my daughters school.

The point of Bitcoin is that it's decentralised, it seems that people seem to consider it like Gold in that whatever happens to the local markets there will always be a value to it. There's a finite amount of Bitcoin available and it's harder and harder to mine them, so it's a limited currency.

I believe the latest bubble was because of Japan listing it as an official currency (?) Or something similar to that

Okay, but scarcity on its own doesn't create value.  If so people would churn out a new currency every day and it would be worth a fortune as long as you limited supply. 

Isn't decentralised a negative?  Real currencies are worth something in part because they have genuine value behind them?  They are issued by a Government presiding over an economy which produces and exports.  All things being equal if you hold USD then you know someone is always going to have demand for them and there will always be liquidity.  I don't see how that can be said for Bitcoins necessarily in the future.

Government controlling currency is a good thing?

Real currencies worth something because they're backed by what?

FWIW crypto is so much more than just money. There are multiple advantages.

There are of course negatives I can think of over regular money:

Zero regulation means lack of trust
Confusing technology
Difficulty in buying crypto
Not many retailers are even close to accepting it as a payment
Volatile market

These are problems that can and will be resolved as time goes by. Cryptosceptics should watch the video I posted on the first page and it will help you understand a little more about it.

Blockchain technology is internet 2.0

A Government issuing a currency is absolutely a good thing.  Real currencies are backed by underlying economic activity and hence demand.  If a currency is the accepted medium of exchange for an economy of any reasonable size then you can be reasonably sure that someone will always make you an offer for it.  Accepted there will be fluctuations.

If investors suddenly decide the crypto stuff is no longer flavour of the decade then it is worth zip.   What underlies it?  Nothing - it's all just based on investor perception.

It's not fair to compare Bitcoin to a currency though - it's a commodity.

State and money ought to be separate though. Currently the government controls money and it's the best system we have had so far.

It is possible that bitcoin one day becomes worth nothing but the same goes for the pound euro and dollar. It is possible that the economy is one day in freefall and the value of these currencies drops dramatically. It's happened before. I think the reason that a lot of people don't think this is possible is because it CAN'T fail. I mean, if it fails there is anarchy. Banks are constantly being bailed out and there were rumours last year that Deutsch bank needed a bailout last year. They lost half of their market value. If in the hypothetical situation a bank so large fails then it's hypothetically possible that there will be a domino effect.

Now I am not saying that crypto is the answer to all this because it's all very new at the moment, but just because the pound and dollar have been around for so long, and that banks have existed for donkeys, doesn't mean that it can't fall. There are many problems with the monetary system (obviously) and combined with the potential of crypto other than monetary value, is one of the reasons for it's surge in the past few years.

[rinswun]

I bought 15 lite coin for £18.50 each in late May. Worth £40 each as of today. Got 0.50 bit and 2 Eth as well. Mainly bought for a long term high risk, very high reward investMent after a discussion with a friend.

I liked this article: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/31/bitcoin-price-forecast-hit-100000-in-10-years.html

[DungBeetle]

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=67602.0

Not completely related to this post, but that was my position.

I now have £870 worth of Bitcoin and Eth, about 0.2 of a Bit and 2 and a bit Eth (Everything i've read on Eth suggests that it might overtake Bit as the main currency someday, whether that's because Bit crashes or this rises, I don't know, was up to 330 a coin a few weeks back iirc). Then i've got 150,000 Redd still. Which haven't done too well recently. But considering it started from about £20-40 quid a few years back It's gone well. I bought the laptop i'm writing this on with Bitcoin from aria, and have also sorted a couple of amazon giftcards from somewhere online which got us a few presents for random kids birthday parties from my daughters school.

The point of Bitcoin is that it's decentralised, it seems that people seem to consider it like Gold in that whatever happens to the local markets there will always be a value to it. There's a finite amount of Bitcoin available and it's harder and harder to mine them, so it's a limited currency.

I believe the latest bubble was because of Japan listing it as an official currency (?) Or something similar to that

Okay, but scarcity on its own doesn't create value.  If so people would churn out a new currency every day and it would be worth a fortune as long as you limited supply. 

Isn't decentralised a negative?  Real currencies are worth something in part because they have genuine value behind them?  They are issued by a Government presiding over an economy which produces and exports.  All things being equal if you hold USD then you know someone is always going to have demand for them and there will always be liquidity.  I don't see how that can be said for Bitcoins necessarily in the future.

Government controlling currency is a good thing?

Real currencies worth something because they're backed by what?

FWIW crypto is so much more than just money. There are multiple advantages.

There are of course negatives I can think of over regular money:

Zero regulation means lack of trust
Confusing technology
Difficulty in buying crypto
Not many retailers are even close to accepting it as a payment
Volatile market

These are problems that can and will be resolved as time goes by. Cryptosceptics should watch the video I posted on the first page and it will help you understand a little more about it.

Blockchain technology is internet 2.0

A Government issuing a currency is absolutely a good thing.  Real currencies are backed by underlying economic activity and hence demand.  If a currency is the accepted medium of exchange for an economy of any reasonable size then you can be reasonably sure that someone will always make you an offer for it.  Accepted there will be fluctuations.

If investors suddenly decide the crypto stuff is no longer flavour of the decade then it is worth zip.   What underlies it?  Nothing - it's all just based on investor perception.

It's not fair to compare Bitcoin to a currency though - it's a commodity.

State and money ought to be separate though. Currently the government controls money and it's the best system we have had so far.

It is possible that bitcoin one day becomes worth nothing but the same goes for the pound euro and dollar. It is possible that the economy is one day in freefall and the value of these currencies drops dramatically. It's happened before. I think the reason that a lot of people don't think this is possible is because it CAN'T fail. I mean, if it fails there is anarchy. Banks are constantly being bailed out and there were rumours last year that Deutsch bank needed a bailout last year. They lost half of their market value. If in the hypothetical situation a bank so large fails then it's hypothetically possible that there will be a domino effect.

Now I am not saying that crypto is the answer to all this because it's all very new at the moment, but just because the pound and dollar have been around for so long, and that banks have existed for donkeys, doesn't mean that it can't fall. There are many problems with the monetary system (obviously) and combined with the potential of crypto other than monetary value, is one of the reasons for it's surge in the past few years.

Yes that's true I suppose.  My argument is that people deciding crypto isn't supported by fundamentals is much more likely that the US dollar being wiped out in an anarchistic revolution when they all go back to barter economy. But I suppose upside is more on crypto.  Still feels like a massive bubble to me but I don't begrudge the great returns some have had.

[lucky_scrote]

I bought 15 lite coin for £18.50 each in late May. Worth £40 each as of today. Got 0.50 bit and 2 Eth as well. Mainly bought for a long term high risk, very high reward investMent after a discussion with a friend.

I liked this article: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/31/bitcoin-price-forecast-hit-100000-in-10-years.html

I am pro crypto (obv) but in general it's difficult to know what to read. Anything about speculation or decline is best to avoid and just focus on articles that talk about the technology and the economy etc.

Most investment and banking sites or anything linked to big media are massively anti-bitcoin. The banks are definitely shitting themselves though. They love to write shit about bitcoin but on the side have been running surveys and questionnaires regarding cryptocurrency.

[GreekStein]

Good thread.

Was thinking of starting one of these myself.

I have so many friends who are such huge believers in Bitcoin.

I got into Bitcoin 4 years ago and have followed it ever since. I think it could be the future. I also think it could be a huge bubble. I hope it's the former.

@lucky_scrote I like the ICO's you're holding. In particular Waves. I know less about Antshares (but it's like Ethereum in china right?) and a lot of my friends seem very excited about it. I think Waves could moon.

[lucky_scrote]

Good thread.

Was thinking of starting one of these myself.

I have so many friends who are such huge believers in Bitcoin.

I got into Bitcoin 4 years ago and have followed it ever since. I think it could be the future. I also think it could be a huge bubble. I hope it's the former.

@lucky_scrote I like the ICO's you're holding. In particular Waves. I know less about Antshares (but it's like Ethereum in china right?) and a lot of my friends seem very excited about it. I think Waves could moon.

Antshares is more exciting that Ethereum for me, it's definitely something I would recommend. https://www.reddit.com/r/Antshares/comments/6iyjv9/why_i_bought_antshares_neo_at_25_cents_and_never/ is a good read.

I have to admit that I know next to nothing about waves and that all of my investments have been suggestions by people much smarter than me. I research most of the coins but waves I honestly know nothing about waves .

BTW ICO means initial coin offering and that is what they are called before they hit the market for trading. You usually get special benefits for investing before the market since the risk is much higher (some ICO's are scams).

[Doobs]

I bought 15 lite coin for £18.50 each in late May. Worth £40 each as of today. Got 0.50 bit and 2 Eth as well. Mainly bought for a long term high risk, very high reward investMent after a discussion with a friend.

I liked this article: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/31/bitcoin-price-forecast-hit-100000-in-10-years.html

I am pro crypto (obv) but in general it's difficult to know what to read. Anything about speculation or decline is best to avoid and just focus on articles that talk about the technology and the economy etc.

Most investment and banking sites or anything linked to big media are massively anti-bitcoin. The banks are definitely shitting themselves though. They love to write shit about bitcoin but on the side have been running surveys and questionnaires regarding cryptocurrency.

Why would the banks shit themselves?  I just don't see how bitcoin/crypto impacts on their revenue in any major way.  Unless people are going to move over to lending and borrowing in bitcoin/crypto then I just don't any major impact.  And surely you'd have to some serious issues to want to borrow money in a currency that swings so wildly?  

People who invest see something with no intrinsic value.  Even when most people invest in China or the US they don't just hold dollars or Renminbi, they hold US or Chinese assets.  It just wouldn't occur to me to just hold on to dollars as an investment.  Why hold on to them for 40 years and just have a dollar, when I can hold a US property, bond, share and expect to end up with much more.  

We have seen similar before, whether it be ostrich eggs, tech shares, commodities, oil explorers, junk bonds etc.  One day they are going to be worth something bad wiill happen and they will inevitably end up worth something close to their intrinsic value.  Sure people will have made fortunes; people always will from the current big thing; but I don't see any need for regret for missing out.  If you have a more diversified strategy, there are always going to be people who have taken bigger risks, and are far richer than you...  and there will always be those who have taken those bigger risks and lost the lot.  

Good luck everyone, I just can't see my ever investing.  Just isn't my kind of thing.  

[lucky_scrote]

I urge the people that think this is all about investment and keep talking about crypto having no intrinsic value to separate the money side from the crypto and learn about the technology. Investment and money aside blockchain technology is amazing. One thing that is uncertain is how much 1 btc is worth in the future, but one thing that is absolutely 100% is that the blockchain technology will be internet 2.0. One of the biggest assets of blockchain technology is the removal of a third party. Having third parties is every day life at the moment since blockchain technology isn't implemented. They have the job of being the adjudicator and making sure everything is fair. There are many problems with third parties. They add costs, they can be corrupt and they are timely. Most organisations are not corrupt, most organisations aren't terribly expensive and some/most are timely. The way blockchain works is that it is very fast, requires no middle man and with a well implemented blockchain they are impossible to fuck with.

It is feasible that you can buy a car from someone using a crypto currency in the future and the code in the transaction will prove that you are trading a car for your crypto. It will be instant and that information will be available for the world to see. Currently, for this to happen it will take weeks, countless paperwork and it has to be paid through taxes or direct costs.

I know I've gone on about it, but it's not just about the money. What I'm sure of is the technology is going to take over every day life and whether 1 BTC is going to be worth $100k in 10 years who knows, but it seems like a really good investment to me.

[lucky_scrote]

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