Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)

[lucky_scrote]

Is there a record of what Wallet it went to?  Is so can't I just phone the police as I am a victim of cybercrime?  If not then how can I ever offer proof of purchase if I buy something genuine?  Apologies about the volume of questions.

Yes there is a record. If you don't take proper measures to secure your money then it's tough shit. Just like, if you were to leave your wallet in your back pocket with £5k in it and someone pickpockets it, you aren't getting that money back unless the thief is caught. If someone leaves their wallet online (not advisable if you have a lot of crypto) and your computer/phone is infected then you are at risk. If you use a simple password to your wallet then you are increasing your risk furthermore. Crypto isn't regulated or centralised so if someone steals your money, it's your fault.

The proof of purchase question is fantastic and is probably what makes crypto so amazing. Say I want to buy something from amazon using bitcoin. I make the purchase and a timestamp is actually printed into the algorithm of that bitcoin. It cannot be tampered with. If there were to be a problem that Amazon have with me, I can say "hey, I paid you on this date". There is no possibility of charge back with crypto unlike the charge-back system you have with Visa for disputes. Currently the consumer is protected with fraudulent activity such as someone obtaining our credit card information by VISA, obviously this comes at a cost...

With other crypto it is possible to write code/contracts into the blockchain meaning that the moment you pay for something it will legally become yours, say a car or a house.

And thank you for the questions and open-mindedness

[lucky_scrote]

Time for some actual news. ANS (Antshares or NEO) are an alt coin that has shown a lot of interest recently. I posted a link to it on the first page. It seems that someone was poking around one of the exchanges (liqui) and noticed a test trade for BTC/ANS. The lack of trading opportunities has undoubtedly held back the price of it (it's currently on bittrex only) and I would like to think there is a chance that once that market goes live it will have an increase. It is worth considering that Liqui are no way near as big as Bittrex though, so perhaps this is unworthy news.

[AndrewT]

Why is there a need for more than one crypto currency - surely it would gain traction faster if there was only Bitcoin?

Tomcoin, Dickcoin and Harrycoin are only going to muddy the waters and make Joe Public think this whole thing is nerdy geekshit.

[EvilPie]

Why is there a need for more than one crypto currency - surely it would gain traction faster if there was only Bitcoin?

Tomcoin, Dickcoin and Harrycoin are only going to muddy the waters and make Joe Public think this whole thing is nerdy geekshit.

Tom, Dick and Harry clearly need their own bandwagon to hop on as they're too late for bitcoin. I'd imagine that the creators of these algorithms circulate a billion or whatever units at a cost of 1p each or whatever and keep half themselves at a cost of nothing. There's plenty to go around if it takes off and then they become a multi billionaire for writing a bit of software.

I think they used to call them Ponzi schemes or some such like.

It genius really, can't fault them. It's all powered by greed of course same as anything. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, without greed we'd all live in wooden shacks built by our own fair hands.

[DungBeetle]

Is there a record of what Wallet it went to?  Is so can't I just phone the police as I am a victim of cybercrime?  If not then how can I ever offer proof of purchase if I buy something genuine?  Apologies about the volume of questions.

Yes there is a record. If you don't take proper measures to secure your money then it's tough shit. Just like, if you were to leave your wallet in your back pocket with £5k in it and someone pickpockets it, you aren't getting that money back unless the thief is caught. If someone leaves their wallet online (not advisable if you have a lot of crypto) and your computer/phone is infected then you are at risk. If you use a simple password to your wallet then you are increasing your risk furthermore. Crypto isn't regulated or centralised so if someone steals your money, it's your fault.

The proof of purchase question is fantastic and is probably what makes crypto so amazing. Say I want to buy something from amazon using bitcoin. I make the purchase and a timestamp is actually printed into the algorithm of that bitcoin. It cannot be tampered with. If there were to be a problem that Amazon have with me, I can say "hey, I paid you on this date". There is no possibility of charge back with crypto unlike the charge-back system you have with Visa for disputes. Currently the consumer is protected with fraudulent activity such as someone obtaining our credit card information by VISA, obviously this comes at a cost...

With other crypto it is possible to write code/contracts into the blockchain meaning that the moment you pay for something it will legally become yours, say a car or a house.

And thank you for the questions and open-mindedness

Interesting on the purchasing.  In the thief example though don't they know who the thief is though due to the blockchain?  So can't the police just get it back and arrest him even if my computer is infected?

[bergeroo]

Is there a record of what Wallet it went to?  Is so can't I just phone the police as I am a victim of cybercrime?  If not then how can I ever offer proof of purchase if I buy something genuine?  Apologies about the volume of questions.

Yes there is a record. If you don't take proper measures to secure your money then it's tough shit. Just like, if you were to leave your wallet in your back pocket with £5k in it and someone pickpockets it, you aren't getting that money back unless the thief is caught. If someone leaves their wallet online (not advisable if you have a lot of crypto) and your computer/phone is infected then you are at risk. If you use a simple password to your wallet then you are increasing your risk furthermore. Crypto isn't regulated or centralised so if someone steals your money, it's your fault.

The proof of purchase question is fantastic and is probably what makes crypto so amazing. Say I want to buy something from amazon using bitcoin. I make the purchase and a timestamp is actually printed into the algorithm of that bitcoin. It cannot be tampered with. If there were to be a problem that Amazon have with me, I can say "hey, I paid you on this date". There is no possibility of charge back with crypto unlike the charge-back system you have with Visa for disputes. Currently the consumer is protected with fraudulent activity such as someone obtaining our credit card information by VISA, obviously this comes at a cost...

With other crypto it is possible to write code/contracts into the blockchain meaning that the moment you pay for something it will legally become yours, say a car or a house.

And thank you for the questions and open-mindedness

Interesting on the purchasing.  In the thief example though don't they know who the thief is though due to the blockchain?  So can't the police just get it back and arrest him even if my computer is infected?

Is bitcoin even legally a thing? What's the crime?

[Doobs]

Is there a record of what Wallet it went to?  Is so can't I just phone the police as I am a victim of cybercrime?  If not then how can I ever offer proof of purchase if I buy something genuine?  Apologies about the volume of questions.

Yes there is a record. If you don't take proper measures to secure your money then it's tough shit. Just like, if you were to leave your wallet in your back pocket with £5k in it and someone pickpockets it, you aren't getting that money back unless the thief is caught. If someone leaves their wallet online (not advisable if you have a lot of crypto) and your computer/phone is infected then you are at risk. If you use a simple password to your wallet then you are increasing your risk furthermore. Crypto isn't regulated or centralised so if someone steals your money, it's your fault.

The proof of purchase question is fantastic and is probably what makes crypto so amazing. Say I want to buy something from amazon using bitcoin. I make the purchase and a timestamp is actually printed into the algorithm of that bitcoin. It cannot be tampered with. If there were to be a problem that Amazon have with me, I can say "hey, I paid you on this date". There is no possibility of charge back with crypto unlike the charge-back system you have with Visa for disputes. Currently the consumer is protected with fraudulent activity such as someone obtaining our credit card information by VISA, obviously this comes at a cost...

With other crypto it is possible to write code/contracts into the blockchain meaning that the moment you pay for something it will legally become yours, say a car or a house.

And thank you for the questions and open-mindedness

Interesting on the purchasing.  In the thief example though don't they know who the thief is though due to the blockchain?  So can't the police just get it back and arrest him even if my computer is infected?

Is bitcoin even legally a thing? What's the crime?

Theft is theft whatever the property is.  Guess there may be issues over where it took place?

[DungBeetle]

Is there a record of what Wallet it went to?  Is so can't I just phone the police as I am a victim of cybercrime?  If not then how can I ever offer proof of purchase if I buy something genuine?  Apologies about the volume of questions.

Yes there is a record. If you don't take proper measures to secure your money then it's tough shit. Just like, if you were to leave your wallet in your back pocket with £5k in it and someone pickpockets it, you aren't getting that money back unless the thief is caught. If someone leaves their wallet online (not advisable if you have a lot of crypto) and your computer/phone is infected then you are at risk. If you use a simple password to your wallet then you are increasing your risk furthermore. Crypto isn't regulated or centralised so if someone steals your money, it's your fault.

The proof of purchase question is fantastic and is probably what makes crypto so amazing. Say I want to buy something from amazon using bitcoin. I make the purchase and a timestamp is actually printed into the algorithm of that bitcoin. It cannot be tampered with. If there were to be a problem that Amazon have with me, I can say "hey, I paid you on this date". There is no possibility of charge back with crypto unlike the charge-back system you have with Visa for disputes. Currently the consumer is protected with fraudulent activity such as someone obtaining our credit card information by VISA, obviously this comes at a cost...

With other crypto it is possible to write code/contracts into the blockchain meaning that the moment you pay for something it will legally become yours, say a car or a house.

And thank you for the questions and open-mindedness

Interesting on the purchasing.  In the thief example though don't they know who the thief is though due to the blockchain?  So can't the police just get it back and arrest him even if my computer is infected?

Is bitcoin even legally a thing? What's the crime?

If I can pay CGT on it (as someone said earlier) then it is legally an asset?  So theft of property?

[GreekStein]

people who have Bitcoin: it's amazing. It's the future. Buy buy buy shill shill shill.

People who don't have Bitcoin: it's a bubble. It's a clever ponzi. Burst burst burst.

[lucky_scrote]

Is there a record of what Wallet it went to?  Is so can't I just phone the police as I am a victim of cybercrime?  If not then how can I ever offer proof of purchase if I buy something genuine?  Apologies about the volume of questions.

Yes there is a record. If you don't take proper measures to secure your money then it's tough shit. Just like, if you were to leave your wallet in your back pocket with £5k in it and someone pickpockets it, you aren't getting that money back unless the thief is caught. If someone leaves their wallet online (not advisable if you have a lot of crypto) and your computer/phone is infected then you are at risk. If you use a simple password to your wallet then you are increasing your risk furthermore. Crypto isn't regulated or centralised so if someone steals your money, it's your fault.

The proof of purchase question is fantastic and is probably what makes crypto so amazing. Say I want to buy something from amazon using bitcoin. I make the purchase and a timestamp is actually printed into the algorithm of that bitcoin. It cannot be tampered with. If there were to be a problem that Amazon have with me, I can say "hey, I paid you on this date". There is no possibility of charge back with crypto unlike the charge-back system you have with Visa for disputes. Currently the consumer is protected with fraudulent activity such as someone obtaining our credit card information by VISA, obviously this comes at a cost...

With other crypto it is possible to write code/contracts into the blockchain meaning that the moment you pay for something it will legally become yours, say a car or a house.

And thank you for the questions and open-mindedness

Interesting on the purchasing.  In the thief example though don't they know who the thief is though due to the blockchain?  So can't the police just get it back and arrest him even if my computer is infected?

There isn't proof he is a thief.

I send you 20 bitcoin now. I call you a thief for hacking me.

You hack into my computer and steal all my data and passwords, access my wallet and send yourself 20 bitcoins.

Both are exactly the same.

[rfgqqabc]

There just seems to be something a bit 'boiler room' about people who hold crypto having an evangelical zeal about telling everyone about how it's a sure thing for the future.

I have no issues with crypto as a thing - it's just that in order for it to be a good investment I'd need to hear about why it's underpriced now. Bitcoin has doubled in value in the last 3 months - why is it still value?

I remember when Bitcoin hit $1000 back a few years ago and then more than halved in value and it took 3 years to recover its value.

I think this is a good post.

I found the link below during my googles for other articles. Its probably a better summary then I could give.
*https://thecontrol.co/cryptoeconomics-101-e5c883e9a8ff

Part of the problem is it is new technology. Blockchain as a thing is definitely here to stay, however, this doesn't necessarily mean cryptocurrency as a whole is a thing. It is no surprise to me that online poker players are early adopters of bitcoin. Its also why people in the real world might not necessarily understand that currency transfers between markets can be both expensive and time consuming. I have sent and received many deposits and withdrawals to poker sites in weird and wonderful places at almost no cost. This is the value it provides.  In theory, bitcoin will be most useful as an economic tool once the price has settled. However, because the potential of the currency is unknown then it is extremely hard to value. It is a long way from mainstream adoption, even at this point, and the technology has been improved upon in the other forms of coins which could mean bitcoin loses out. The main issue surrounding whether bitcoin is "value" right now is extremely complicated and way over what I can easily explain. Basically, the overall network has gotten too big for its own good, which leads to increased fees and slower transaction times. The difficulty surrounding the "proof of work" system that verifies the block chain transactions is extremely high. This has led to people investing in huge mining operations in China, with cheap hydroelectricity. This has led to problems in bitcoin governance, which uses mining nodes to signal for future development changes. The relationship between developers, users and miners is at its murkiest right now. August 1st is a sort of deadline for this because one of the sides of the scaling issue has said he will take action on this date. This is why bitcoin has lost a lot of its dominance in the market.

*https://bitcoinworldwide.com/mining/pools/

*https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/a-primer-on-bitcoin-governance-or-why-developers-aren-t-in-charge-of-the-protocol-1473270427/

*https://thecontrol.co/cryptoeconomics-101-e5c883e9a8ff

Most of the other coins in this space seek to solve a different sort of problem that builds on the decentralized nature of bitcoin. This typically involves promises of some sort of high tech promise like cloud storage or a super computer. These coins then launch an ICO, or Initial Coin Offering. This is just a form of raising capital, and should be looked upon with extreme caution in my opinion. In almost all cases the same task could be accomplished without the token. These will be the things that bubble out of control and possibly send btc into a spiral (or a pump up i suppose). A lot of the ethereum growth came from holding ICOs on that platform due to the functionality of smart contracts. One of the positives of the token system is aligning the token's developers goals with early supporters. Everyone can benefit from this system. Personally, I'm not sure why a company would need to raise millions for some of the ideas but I guess that happens in every market.
 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-03/goldman-sees-bitcoin-soaring-high-3915

Bitcoin is psedo-anonymous. For example, we can check the wallet behind Wannacry and see that the bitcoin sent there hasn't been moved. However, I don't think that means we will be able to track whoever actually took the coins unless they make a mistake moving them. There are coins in the market which use something called zero knowledge proof of work. This allows coins to work in the same way as bitcoin without a publicly exposed blockchain. (tech gets complicated and I cant explain, included nerdy link)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof


Honestly, Evilpie your ideas on cryptocurrency are amazingly off base. It seems like you have absolutely no understanding in this area at all. Why wouldn't you bother to read something before posting? Its really off putting to be relatively happy to discuss something only to have someone with zero knowledge just shout ponzi before you. Its not that your even necessarily that wrong, lots of the smaller coins are revived projects from the last boom which bring little economic or technological value and are just desperately trying to jump on the train. They are also probably worth about 2% total of the overall space.

[DungBeetle]

Is there a record of what Wallet it went to?  Is so can't I just phone the police as I am a victim of cybercrime?  If not then how can I ever offer proof of purchase if I buy something genuine?  Apologies about the volume of questions.

Yes there is a record. If you don't take proper measures to secure your money then it's tough shit. Just like, if you were to leave your wallet in your back pocket with £5k in it and someone pickpockets it, you aren't getting that money back unless the thief is caught. If someone leaves their wallet online (not advisable if you have a lot of crypto) and your computer/phone is infected then you are at risk. If you use a simple password to your wallet then you are increasing your risk furthermore. Crypto isn't regulated or centralised so if someone steals your money, it's your fault.

The proof of purchase question is fantastic and is probably what makes crypto so amazing. Say I want to buy something from amazon using bitcoin. I make the purchase and a timestamp is actually printed into the algorithm of that bitcoin. It cannot be tampered with. If there were to be a problem that Amazon have with me, I can say "hey, I paid you on this date". There is no possibility of charge back with crypto unlike the charge-back system you have with Visa for disputes. Currently the consumer is protected with fraudulent activity such as someone obtaining our credit card information by VISA, obviously this comes at a cost...

With other crypto it is possible to write code/contracts into the blockchain meaning that the moment you pay for something it will legally become yours, say a car or a house.

And thank you for the questions and open-mindedness

Interesting on the purchasing.  In the thief example though don't they know who the thief is though due to the blockchain?  So can't the police just get it back and arrest him even if my computer is infected?

There isn't proof he is a thief.

I send you 20 bitcoin now. I call you a thief for hacking me.

You hack into my computer and steal all my data and passwords, access my wallet and send yourself 20 bitcoins.

Both are exactly the same.

Yes but what happens now if someone hacks my HSBC account and transfers 10k to a named account?  HSBC refund me but presumably they go after the named person who did it?

[The Camel]

My personal thoughts on these kind of things are basically that as soon as someone as low down the financial food chain as me finds out about it it's already too late. The only reason I'm now getting a chance to get in on the act is that it's the final phase of the originators of whatever it is making their billions.

I imagine a few of people are going to make a countless amount of money out of this. Sadly that's going to mean that countless people are going to lose a lot as well.

It doesn't create anything, doesn't build anything, doesn't manufacture anything. There are a finite number of bitcoins that have increased in value enormously somehow. The people who already own them are going to do alright by the looks of it but somewhere down the line people are going to have to lose exactly the same amount of money between them that the bitcoin people have made. There's no other possibility unless money somehow just disappears completely. It may be that bitcoin makes another currency crash. That means that the poor guy who owns that particular currency has now lost everything he/she owns.

The creators are making out it's some kind of revolution but I can't see any reason they created it other than to make themselves insanely rich. Now they just have to get it out to as many people as possible as quickly as possible to maximise their own personal wealth.

Not that I'm a cynic or anything

This is exactly how I feel.

[GreekStein]

One silly thing I don't like is the term ICO. A lot of people perceive an ICO to be another currency when it's more of a block chain based company/idea etc

[pleno1]

For me with Bitcoin I think there's two viable options.

1) short term buying and selling based on inside news, articles, whispers, patterns, buying when dipping and selling when rocketing

2) put 5-25% of your net worth in and just let it be and hopefully be rich

I see so many people with let's say less than 10 bitcoins who are just thinking and reading and chatting all day about it and spending infinite time on it.

If you're fully invested, like 50%+ I get it.

I don't mass ivory believe in Bitcoin or overly doubt it, I don't even read too much about it. I think the way I see the world changing over the last 5 years or so and how politics is changing both in Britain and internationally is that people don't believe in governments, they don't trust banks. The new generation are very tech/computer savvy and people like to follow things that are fashionable. Every year there is more people working freelance and people are more than ever reliant on using things that are easy. People don't like having to call banks to give passwords or codes or wait 15 minutes to verify transfers and people don't like paying fees/vigs. In Eastern European companies like Hungary you will be surprised at how difficult it is to transfer money to another bank internationally without the government getting involved and without spending 30 minutes explaining the transfer or verifying it's actually you. Countries like Greece have very little faith in their banks and government.

All above to me makes very logical sense why a crypto currency will be successful.

The biggest thing Crpyto has taught people is variance and dealing with swings. I have a friend in Vegas and on his app (blockfolio) he has all his Crpytos set up how much he has etc and it shows you your wallets worth, he has around $2m in it and every day his app shows him winning/losing between 10-50k (sometimes more Ofc) somebody who successfully manages to make good decisions with crpyto will likely be able to be very successful in lots of other things in future.