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Author Topic: International Politics  (Read 3477 times)
MintTrav
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« on: April 27, 2018, 03:45:13 AM »

I have thought for a long time that this forum could do with an international politics thread, separate to the UK and US ones. There have been so many things going on, from Syria to Catalonia, Myanmar, Korea, Zimbabwe, Phillipines, South Africa, Brazil, Cuba and many other places, which don’t fit into the existing threads. Populism, Nationalism and Nativism are in the ascendant and right-wing parties have been winning across Europe and elsewhere. There have been critical elections in several countries recently - Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands and Austria come to mind.

I guess a thread like this might have flurries of activity, interspersed with dormant periods - a bit like a war. To kick it off, a historic event that has just happened tonight:

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RED-DOG
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2018, 07:10:52 AM »

Even if I can't contribute much I really enjoy these threads.

Looking forward to it.
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tikay
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2018, 07:16:28 AM »



^^^^

Same here, I read the Politics & POTY threads avidly, but don't know enough to add anything. Good stuff Mint, & all those who contribute.

 
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2018, 07:20:40 AM »


I'll ask a question though, to help get things moving.

Why, all of a sudden, after all these years of sticking 2 fingers up to the rest of the world, are North Korea seemingly in conciliatory mode.

They attended the Olympics in South Korea, (widely suspected of having ulterior motives), met with the top cheese from South Korea yesterday, & are happy (?) to have a pow-wow with Mr Trump shortly.

What gives, why the change of tack?

As it happens, I'm pleased, it can never be a good thing to be so aggressive out of step with the rest of the world. I'm just curious as to "why now?" What changed?
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Woodsey
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 08:11:53 AM »

Gotta love social media and the meltdowns people have on there

‘Thank you, President Trump. God bless you. Keep up the good work!’

Cue meltdown 
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Jon MW
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2018, 08:52:33 AM »


I'll ask a question though, to help get things moving.

Why, all of a sudden, after all these years of sticking 2 fingers up to the rest of the world, are North Korea seemingly in conciliatory mode.

They attended the Olympics in South Korea, (widely suspected of having ulterior motives), met with the top cheese from South Korea yesterday, & are happy (?) to have a pow-wow with Mr Trump shortly.

What gives, why the change of tack?

As it happens, I'm pleased, it can never be a good thing to be so aggressive out of step with the rest of the world. I'm just curious as to "why now?" What changed?

I'm assuming they just needed a single thing to agree on which would start the whole process going.

I'm assuming the single thing they agreed on was laughing at Trump.
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Woodsey
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2018, 09:05:59 AM »


I'll ask a question though, to help get things moving.

Why, all of a sudden, after all these years of sticking 2 fingers up to the rest of the world, are North Korea seemingly in conciliatory mode.

They attended the Olympics in South Korea, (widely suspected of having ulterior motives), met with the top cheese from South Korea yesterday, & are happy (?) to have a pow-wow with Mr Trump shortly.

What gives, why the change of tack?

As it happens, I'm pleased, it can never be a good thing to be so aggressive out of step with the rest of the world. I'm just curious as to "why now?" What changed?

I'm assuming they just needed a single thing to agree on which would start the whole process going.

I'm assuming the single thing they agreed on was laughing at Trump.

I doubt that was the case, whilst I’m no fan of Trump what makes me laugh is people who can’t accept there is a single thing he might have done that is good....
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MintTrav
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2018, 11:16:51 AM »

It seems a bit of a mystery why things have changed, though we have seen many times before that things can be going on behind the scenes that are very different to the public statements, so this could have been going on for longer than we know. It is possible (though unlikely) that Trump’s tough talk scared them into talking. More likely is that their nuclear programme has given them confidence that they will be taken seriously and regarded as an equal participant. It is clear that Rex Tillerson and Mike Pompeo has been heavily involved.

But we’ve kind of been here before. There have been several meetings between the Kims and South Korean leaders. Madeleine Albright’s visit led to NK staying non-nuclear for years, until the Bush government violated the agreement. Other meetings have had some success, but haven’t changed the big picture.







 Click to see full-size image.


 Click to see full-size image.



I stumbled across this article this morning. I didn’t know this, but it seems there was the possibility of a breakthrough with Kim Il Sung, but he died unexpectedly at the wrong time, and South Korea upset them by making it illegal to express condolences.

https://www.nknews.org/2014/07/reflections-on-missed-opportunities-of-kim-il-sungs-death/
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Jon MW
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2018, 01:07:31 PM »


I'll ask a question though, to help get things moving.

Why, all of a sudden, after all these years of sticking 2 fingers up to the rest of the world, are North Korea seemingly in conciliatory mode.

They attended the Olympics in South Korea, (widely suspected of having ulterior motives), met with the top cheese from South Korea yesterday, & are happy (?) to have a pow-wow with Mr Trump shortly.

What gives, why the change of tack?

As it happens, I'm pleased, it can never be a good thing to be so aggressive out of step with the rest of the world. I'm just curious as to "why now?" What changed?

I'm assuming they just needed a single thing to agree on which would start the whole process going.

I'm assuming the single thing they agreed on was laughing at Trump.

I doubt that was the case, whilst I’m no fan of Trump what makes me laugh is people who can’t accept there is a single thing he might have done that is good....

I wasn't being entirely serious you know Cheesy

But as MintTrav suggested it's probably got nothing to do with Trump either way.

From what I've read before there's been a trickle of talks going on most of the time. The most obvious outward signs of these have been when the Korea's have been represented in sports and those kinds of ideas go back about 30 years.

Having had a quick google it seems that the latest impetus is a new South Korean President in 2017; most of the breakthroughs in North/South cooperation seem to follow a pretty linear timeline from then.
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Woodsey
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2018, 01:47:47 PM »


I'll ask a question though, to help get things moving.

Why, all of a sudden, after all these years of sticking 2 fingers up to the rest of the world, are North Korea seemingly in conciliatory mode.

They attended the Olympics in South Korea, (widely suspected of having ulterior motives), met with the top cheese from South Korea yesterday, & are happy (?) to have a pow-wow with Mr Trump shortly.

What gives, why the change of tack?

As it happens, I'm pleased, it can never be a good thing to be so aggressive out of step with the rest of the world. I'm just curious as to "why now?" What changed?

I'm assuming they just needed a single thing to agree on which would start the whole process going.

I'm assuming the single thing they agreed on was laughing at Trump.

I doubt that was the case, whilst I’m no fan of Trump what makes me laugh is people who can’t accept there is a single thing he might have done that is good....

I wasn't being entirely serious you know Cheesy

But as MintTrav suggested it's probably got nothing to do with Trump either way.

From what I've read before there's been a trickle of talks going on most of the time. The most obvious outward signs of these have been when the Korea's have been represented in sports and those kinds of ideas go back about 30 years.

Having had a quick google it seems that the latest impetus is a new South Korean President in 2017; most of the breakthroughs in North/South cooperation seem to follow a pretty linear timeline from then.

Bollocks, Trump has definitely had some influence on ithe process, you can argue how much influence but he definitely has....anyone who disagrees with that is just someone who is in denial and can’t bring themselves to admit he has helped do something good.

If Obama was in this spot people would be saying what a breakthrough he had help make.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 01:57:12 PM by Woodsey » Logged
Marky147
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2018, 02:02:32 PM »


I'll ask a question though, to help get things moving.

Why, all of a sudden, after all these years of sticking 2 fingers up to the rest of the world, are North Korea seemingly in conciliatory mode.

They attended the Olympics in South Korea, (widely suspected of having ulterior motives), met with the top cheese from South Korea yesterday, & are happy (?) to have a pow-wow with Mr Trump shortly.

What gives, why the change of tack?

As it happens, I'm pleased, it can never be a good thing to be so aggressive out of step with the rest of the world. I'm just curious as to "why now?" What changed?

I'm assuming they just needed a single thing to agree on which would start the whole process going.

I'm assuming the single thing they agreed on was laughing at Trump.

I doubt that was the case, whilst I’m no fan of Trump what makes me laugh is people who can’t accept there is a single thing he might have done that is good....

I wasn't being entirely serious you know Cheesy

But as MintTrav suggested it's probably got nothing to do with Trump either way.

From what I've read before there's been a trickle of talks going on most of the time. The most obvious outward signs of these have been when the Korea's have been represented in sports and those kinds of ideas go back about 30 years.

Having had a quick google it seems that the latest impetus is a new South Korean President in 2017; most of the breakthroughs in North/South cooperation seem to follow a pretty linear timeline from then.

Bollocks, Trump has definitely had some influence on ithe process, you can argue how much influence but he definitely has....anyone who disagrees with that is just someone who is in denial and can’t bring themselves to admit he has helped do something good.

If Obama was in this spot people would be saying what a breakthrough he had help make.

Hi Donald
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horseplayer
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2018, 02:02:59 PM »

getting a tad defensive for someone who "isnt a fan of Trump"

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Woodsey
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2018, 02:08:17 PM »

getting a tad defensive for someone who "isnt a fan of Trump"

Nah I just think it’s quite funny that some people could never say a good word about him, they are so one eyed it’s hard to take them seriously to be honest.

Like I said above, Obama would be getting massive praise from those same people probably.
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Marky147
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2018, 02:15:42 PM »

getting a tad defensive for someone who "isnt a fan of Trump"

Nah I just think it’s quite funny that some people could never say a good word about him, they are so one eyed it’s hard to take them seriously to be honest.

Like I said above, Obama would be getting massive praise from those same people probably.

I'll say a good word about him, if he doesn't get Vegas blown up before summer Grin
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2018, 02:20:48 PM »

getting a tad defensive for someone who "isnt a fan of Trump"

Nah I just think it’s quite funny that some people could never say a good word about him, they are so one eyed it’s hard to take them seriously to be honest.

Like I said above, Obama would be getting massive praise from those same people probably.

I don't know enough about it to have a strong view but I agree with you. We don't know how much influence he has had or even if it was by design but it does seem to me that he's had a positive effect in this. Still an abysmal human o/c but credit where it's due.
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