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Author Topic: Advice on Salary increase request.  (Read 9894 times)
BigAdz
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« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2018, 10:51:45 AM »

Last business I managed I increased EBITDA from £100k to £1.1m in 3.5yrs. That doesn’t come from giving employees pay rises they think they deserve

The motivation and additional performance from pay rises is very temporary. About 2mths after a rise you adjust to the norm of the new salary and perform like you always have. In this instance the choice of the area manager is offering more pay to a seemingly disenchanted employee who’s already overpaid or get a fresh super engaged employee for much less. I’m afraid the employer doesn’t give one fuck about Omm. I can speak for his employer because that’s how 99% of employers feel these days. Could be wrong though and perhaps he will get showered with a big pay rise, company car and exciting new incentives.



Some great stuff on here.

A point I'm not sure that has been raised is that you know exactly where you are at the moment, even if you feel it is undervalued and underpaid.

The grass is rarely greener........I
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Doobs
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« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2018, 10:57:32 AM »

Last business I managed I increased EBITDA from £100k to £1.1m in 3.5yrs. That doesn’t come from giving employees pay rises they think they deserve

The motivation and additional performance from pay rises is very temporary. About 2mths after a rise you adjust to the norm of the new salary and perform like you always have. In this instance the choice of the area manager is offering more pay to a seemingly disenchanted employee who’s already overpaid or get a fresh super engaged employee for much less. I’m afraid the employer doesn’t give one fuck about Omm. I can speak for his employer because that’s how 99% of employers feel these days. Could be wrong though and perhaps he will get showered with a big pay rise, company car and exciting new incentives.

it is all about emotion man, no point listening to any so called experts.

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nirvana
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« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2018, 11:02:21 AM »

Mantis is right that the utility of a pay rise is poor in terms of improving motivation over a period of time. At the same time, it ain't great having demotivated employees. For short periods in my life, I've been a confident but demotivated employee, not ready or interested in moving jobs..it's pretty easy to adjust your work effort and input to get yourself on a really high hourly.
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Killerkilsby
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« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2018, 12:13:54 PM »

I agree with everything Mantis says. I manage up to 500 people on and off and have these situations all the time, if backed into a corner I may give a rise but then fully plan to replace them as they aren’t the kind of poeple I want around. If you are worth it, you are paid it.

Mantis’s advice is solid.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2018, 12:34:13 PM »


Looks like I’ll have to get back involved :-). I missed my usual caveat, that I’m open to the possibility that I’m wrong. You guys plus Mantis have a hell of a lot more experience than me. My profession is investigating and prosecuting environmental crime. Over the course of my life I have had hundreds of hours coaching/training in effective communication from barrister’s/lawyer’s/QC’s. There’s close to no chance that I know “fk all about communication”.

I stand by the sentiment that based on a balanced assessment of every post he’s ever made, taking advice from Mantis is a terrible idea.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2018, 12:39:50 PM »

Nice one!

FWIW in my last company we employed world class HR experts to complete a comprehensive engagement survey of 500 employees. The biggest gripe was pay. The CEO invested an eye-watering sum in increasing every employees pay. When the survey was conducted a year later engagement had gone down. As far as ROI goes pay rises suck.

Since joining my new company a total of 22 employees have joined me for less pay.

People work for leaders not companies
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2018, 12:43:16 PM »

Nice one!

FWIW in my last company we employed world class HR experts to complete a comprehensive engagement survey of 500 employees. The biggest gripe was pay. The CEO invested an eye-watering sum in increasing every employees pay. When the survey was conducted a year later engagement had gone down. As far as ROI goes pay rises suck.

Since joining my new company a total of 22 employees have joined me for less pay.

People work for leaders not companies

Good post.
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Woodsey
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« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2018, 01:50:23 PM »


Looks like I’ll have to get back involved :-). I missed my usual caveat, that I’m open to the possibility that I’m wrong. You guys plus Mantis have a hell of a lot more experience than me. My profession is investigating and prosecuting environmental crime. Over the course of my life I have had hundreds of hours coaching/training in effective communication from barrister’s/lawyer’s/QC’s. There’s close to no chance that I know “fk all about communication”.

I stand by the sentiment that based on a balanced assessment of every post he’s ever made, taking advice from Mantis is a terrible idea.

It could be the opposite mate, if they have invested so much in your communication they may have recognised you have a weakness with it? 
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arbboy
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« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2018, 02:00:20 PM »

I agree with everything Mantis says. I manage up to 500 people on and off and have these situations all the time, if backed into a corner I may give a rise but then fully plan to replace them as they aren’t the kind of poeple I want around. If you are worth it, you are paid it.

Mantis’s advice is solid.

What a load of rubbish.  People are rarely paid what they are worth unless they scream and shout for what they are worth.  Hhence why women are paid much less than men generally in the same role because they don't argue or kick up a fuss as much.
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Doobs
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« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2018, 02:02:23 PM »

I don't think it is that straightforward.   In my line of work, training takes so much time and money that losing someone for the sake of paying them an extra 5% is a terrible idea.  I say this as someone who used to pay people so the extra 5% came from my wallet.  So you really pay them to retain them, not to motivate.  

So many people are going to moan no matter how much you pay them.  The fear of losing the top 20% and been left with the moaners is very real.  
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2018, 02:07:41 PM »


Looks like I’ll have to get back involved :-). I missed my usual caveat, that I’m open to the possibility that I’m wrong. You guys plus Mantis have a hell of a lot more experience than me. My profession is investigating and prosecuting environmental crime. Over the course of my life I have had hundreds of hours coaching/training in effective communication from barrister’s/lawyer’s/QC’s. There’s close to no chance that I know “fk all about communication”.

I stand by the sentiment that based on a balanced assessment of every post he’s ever made, taking advice from Mantis is a terrible idea.

It could be the opposite mate, if they have invested so much in your communication they may have recognised you have a weakness with it? 

It’s an interesting angle. I don’t get extra lessons though, apart from when I actively seek them. I’m a big fanboy when it comes to lawyers, I love being around them and learning from them, they seem to like and think they learn a little from me as well.
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Woodsey
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« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2018, 02:16:10 PM »


Looks like I’ll have to get back involved :-). I missed my usual caveat, that I’m open to the possibility that I’m wrong. You guys plus Mantis have a hell of a lot more experience than me. My profession is investigating and prosecuting environmental crime. Over the course of my life I have had hundreds of hours coaching/training in effective communication from barrister’s/lawyer’s/QC’s. There’s close to no chance that I know “fk all about communication”.

I stand by the sentiment that based on a balanced assessment of every post he’s ever made, taking advice from Mantis is a terrible idea.

It could be the opposite mate, if they have invested so much in your communication they may have recognised you have a weakness with it? 

It’s an interesting angle. I don’t get extra lessons though, apart from when I actively seek them. I’m a big fanboy when it comes to lawyers, I love being around them and learning from them, they seem to like and think they learn a little from me as well.

Didn’t think lawyers would be interested in your specialist subject of whining about politics 
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Omm
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« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2018, 02:33:39 PM »

I don't think it is that straightforward.   In my line of work, training takes so much time and money that losing someone for the sake of paying them an extra 5% is a terrible idea.  I say this as someone who used to pay people so the extra 5% came from my wallet.  So you really pay them to retain them, not to motivate.  

So many people are going to moan no matter how much you pay them.  The fear of losing the top 20% and been left with the moaners is very real.  

I saw a quote earlier on LinkedIn, something like " What if we develop our people so well that they leave" reply was "Imagine we didn't and they stayed" or something like that.

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arbboy
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« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2018, 02:36:41 PM »

When i left a betting firm in the past i have had several friends who stayed get a pay rise simply because the firm was scared they were going to jump ship and come with me to my new place.  They did nothing personally to justify the pay rise in their performance/job rolee and didn't ask for it so they were being under paid previously and only got a pay rise because i left.
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bobAlike
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« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2018, 03:07:10 PM »

I agree with everything Mantis says. I manage up to 500 people on and off and have these situations all the time, if backed into a corner I may give a rise but then fully plan to replace them as they aren’t the kind of poeple I want around. If you are worth it, you are paid it.

Mantis’s advice is solid.

What a load of rubbish.  People are rarely paid what they are worth unless they scream and shout for what they are worth.  Hhence why women are paid much less than men generally in the same role because they don't argue or kick up a fuss as much.

Have you ever met a woman?
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