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Author Topic: schoolgirl who joined IS but wants to come home.  (Read 59400 times)
RickBFA
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« Reply #105 on: February 17, 2019, 09:09:06 PM »

Playing devil's advocate here somewhat, but has the religious aspect been slightly overlooked here?

The idea of living in an ultra-orthodox caliphate might well have been a key selling-point in persuading deeply religious Muslims to travel to Syria.

Can a 15yr old be said to hold their own deeply religious views? The sense that these young people have been groomed and manipulated is very real.
We probably all held beliefs at 15 that we now see as being wrong. Even BigArz probably had some socialist tendencies in his teens.

We should continue to demonstrate our tolerance and to act as an example of all that is good in Western society. How else can we overcome the excessively intolerant nature of the ‘ultra-orthodox caliphate’.

I’m not suggesting that any specific individual should avoid investigation and possible prosecution for their actions btw. Just saying that before we exile this British citizen we better make damn sure that we have both a good reason for doing so, and a legal framework that allows us to do so.


It's alright Dodgy Dave. Let's all get blown up before we judge anyone.

Quick enough to judge people on here, but prepared to see the best in an ISIS girl.

Says it all really

37 people killed by terrorists in our country since 2010. You do seem overly worried about us all being blown up.

https://fullfact.org/health/austerity-120000-unnecessary-deaths/

Kush, you’ll be telling us that a democratically elected UK government is a bigger threat than ISIS next.

The problem with a ‘threat’ is it means we have to predict the future, we’re all terrible at that. We could just count how many of our citizens they killed, even allowing for the inevitable gross inaccuracies, it’s interesting.

Our Governments might make a complete pigs ear of things, do things we don’t like etc but they are elected by us in a democratic process.

ISIS however want to end of way of life, culture and democracy by any means.

You see what happens when they get some power - the outcome is horrific.

Implying some sort of comparison between the direct deaths from ISIS attacks and austerity is misguided and unnecessary IMO.
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Doobs
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« Reply #106 on: February 17, 2019, 10:10:43 PM »

Playing devil's advocate here somewhat, but has the religious aspect been slightly overlooked here?

The idea of living in an ultra-orthodox caliphate might well have been a key selling-point in persuading deeply religious Muslims to travel to Syria.

Can a 15yr old be said to hold their own deeply religious views? The sense that these young people have been groomed and manipulated is very real.
We probably all held beliefs at 15 that we now see as being wrong. Even BigArz probably had some socialist tendencies in his teens.

We should continue to demonstrate our tolerance and to act as an example of all that is good in Western society. How else can we overcome the excessively intolerant nature of the ‘ultra-orthodox caliphate’.

I’m not suggesting that any specific individual should avoid investigation and possible prosecution for their actions btw. Just saying that before we exile this British citizen we better make damn sure that we have both a good reason for doing so, and a legal framework that allows us to do so.


It's alright Dodgy Dave. Let's all get blown up before we judge anyone.

Quick enough to judge people on here, but prepared to see the best in an ISIS girl.

Says it all really

37 people killed by terrorists in our country since 2010. You do seem overly worried about us all being blown up.

https://fullfact.org/health/austerity-120000-unnecessary-deaths/

Kush, you’ll be telling us that a democratically elected UK government is a bigger threat than ISIS next.

The problem with a ‘threat’ is it means we have to predict the future, we’re all terrible at that. We could just count how many of our citizens they killed, even allowing for the inevitable gross inaccuracies, it’s interesting.

Our Governments might make a complete pigs ear of things, do things we don’t like etc but they are elected by us in a democratic process.

ISIS however want to end of way of life, culture and democracy by any means.

You see what happens when they get some power - the outcome is horrific.

Implying some sort of comparison between the direct deaths from ISIS attacks and austerity is misguided and unnecessary IMO.

It is a good comparison, people are terrible at relative risks.   People losing their minds over this young woman, and people just shut kukushkin down over the link between austerity and the mortality rate.   The diesel/death link is pretty strong too, and I drive one.

Anyway, moving on.

There is a ten minute sky news interview with her on youtube.  I am on my phone and was defeated putting a link up.   I guess it could ve linked to me been unable to see any youtube link on my phone.

Amyway, it is an interesting watch.  She doesn't look in a good way mentally, but I expect that could just as easily be explained by a very recent birth.   She doesn't come across as some entitled young person just expecting a council house.   

It would be good if someone could put it up.
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BigAdz
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« Reply #107 on: February 17, 2019, 10:17:59 PM »

The interview can tug on my heartstrings all you like.

A line in the sand has to be drawn or suddenly it will be ok to join ISIS safe in the knowledge good old soft touch Blighty will let us back....
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Dewi_cool
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« Reply #108 on: February 17, 2019, 10:22:43 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWcJHxmXD1Q
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« Reply #109 on: February 17, 2019, 10:27:05 PM »

The interview can tug on my heartstrings all you like.

A line in the sand has to be drawn or suddenly it will be ok to join ISIS safe in the knowledge good old soft touch Blighty will let us back....

Just watch the bloody thing before commenting.

It isn't an interview that makes her look good.

I suspect the lines of people wanting to join ISIS in Syria right now will be pretty short.
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Pokerpops
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« Reply #110 on: February 17, 2019, 11:25:24 PM »

Playing devil's advocate here somewhat, but has the religious aspect been slightly overlooked here?

The idea of living in an ultra-orthodox caliphate might well have been a key selling-point in persuading deeply religious Muslims to travel to Syria.

Can a 15yr old be said to hold their own deeply religious views? The sense that these young people have been groomed and manipulated is very real.
We probably all held beliefs at 15 that we now see as being wrong. Even BigArz probably had some socialist tendencies in his teens.

We should continue to demonstrate our tolerance and to act as an example of all that is good in Western society. How else can we overcome the excessively intolerant nature of the ‘ultra-orthodox caliphate’.

I’m not suggesting that any specific individual should avoid investigation and possible prosecution for their actions btw. Just saying that before we exile this British citizen we better make damn sure that we have both a good reason for doing so, and a legal framework that allows us to do so.


It's alright Dodgy Dave. Let's all get blown up before we judge anyone.

Quick enough to judge people on here, but prepared to see the best in an ISIS girl.

Says it all really

I took my time in forming my opinions on people here. Gathered a lot of evidence via their posts and made a judgement about them.
There are a lot of folks here with whom I would happily sit and debate the issues of the day, despite our having different views.

Mantis, Doobs, Kukushkin all seem like the type of guy you can disagree with without animosity. MintTrav I know to be a genuine top guy who just has a misguided view on the EU (that is, for clarity, a JOKE)

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Juperjiper
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« Reply #111 on: February 17, 2019, 11:37:05 PM »

Did you know what Islamic State were doing when you left for Syria? Because they had beheaded people. There were executions.

Yeah, I knew about those things and I was okay with it. Because, you know, I started becoming religious just before I left.

From what I heard, Islamically that is all allowed. So I was okay with it.

You didn't question that?

No, not at all.



She sounds great, bring her back
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RickBFA
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« Reply #112 on: February 17, 2019, 11:39:46 PM »

Playing devil's advocate here somewhat, but has the religious aspect been slightly overlooked here?

The idea of living in an ultra-orthodox caliphate might well have been a key selling-point in persuading deeply religious Muslims to travel to Syria.

Can a 15yr old be said to hold their own deeply religious views? The sense that these young people have been groomed and manipulated is very real.
We probably all held beliefs at 15 that we now see as being wrong. Even BigArz probably had some socialist tendencies in his teens.

We should continue to demonstrate our tolerance and to act as an example of all that is good in Western society. How else can we overcome the excessively intolerant nature of the ‘ultra-orthodox caliphate’.

I’m not suggesting that any specific individual should avoid investigation and possible prosecution for their actions btw. Just saying that before we exile this British citizen we better make damn sure that we have both a good reason for doing so, and a legal framework that allows us to do so.


It's alright Dodgy Dave. Let's all get blown up before we judge anyone.

Quick enough to judge people on here, but prepared to see the best in an ISIS girl.

Says it all really

37 people killed by terrorists in our country since 2010. You do seem overly worried about us all being blown up.

https://fullfact.org/health/austerity-120000-unnecessary-deaths/

Kush, you’ll be telling us that a democratically elected UK government is a bigger threat than ISIS next.

The problem with a ‘threat’ is it means we have to predict the future, we’re all terrible at that. We could just count how many of our citizens they killed, even allowing for the inevitable gross inaccuracies, it’s interesting.

Our Governments might make a complete pigs ear of things, do things we don’t like etc but they are elected by us in a democratic process.

ISIS however want to end of way of life, culture and democracy by any means.

You see what happens when they get some power - the outcome is horrific.

Implying some sort of comparison between the direct deaths from ISIS attacks and austerity is misguided and unnecessary IMO.

It is a good comparison, people are terrible at relative risks.   People losing their minds over this young woman, and people just shut kukushkin down over the link between austerity and the mortality rate.   The diesel/death link is pretty strong too, and I drive one.

Anyway, moving on.

There is a ten minute sky news interview with her on youtube.  I am on my phone and was defeated putting a link up.   I guess it could ve linked to me been unable to see any youtube link on my phone.

Amyway, it is an interesting watch.  She doesn't look in a good way mentally, but I expect that could just as easily be explained by a very recent birth.   She doesn't come across as some entitled young person just expecting a council house.   

It would be good if someone could put it up.

I think you missed the point Doobs.

Whilst the number of people killed directly by ISIS is low, the threat to our way of life, values and democracy by ISIS if unchecked is infinitely more important than the effects of the policies of a democratically elected government.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #113 on: February 17, 2019, 11:45:58 PM »

Playing devil's advocate here somewhat, but has the religious aspect been slightly overlooked here?

The idea of living in an ultra-orthodox caliphate might well have been a key selling-point in persuading deeply religious Muslims to travel to Syria.

Can a 15yr old be said to hold their own deeply religious views? The sense that these young people have been groomed and manipulated is very real.
We probably all held beliefs at 15 that we now see as being wrong. Even BigArz probably had some socialist tendencies in his teens.

We should continue to demonstrate our tolerance and to act as an example of all that is good in Western society. How else can we overcome the excessively intolerant nature of the ‘ultra-orthodox caliphate’.

I’m not suggesting that any specific individual should avoid investigation and possible prosecution for their actions btw. Just saying that before we exile this British citizen we better make damn sure that we have both a good reason for doing so, and a legal framework that allows us to do so.


It's alright Dodgy Dave. Let's all get blown up before we judge anyone.

Quick enough to judge people on here, but prepared to see the best in an ISIS girl.

Says it all really

37 people killed by terrorists in our country since 2010. You do seem overly worried about us all being blown up.

https://fullfact.org/health/austerity-120000-unnecessary-deaths/

Kush, you’ll be telling us that a democratically elected UK government is a bigger threat than ISIS next.

The problem with a ‘threat’ is it means we have to predict the future, we’re all terrible at that. We could just count how many of our citizens they killed, even allowing for the inevitable gross inaccuracies, it’s interesting.

Our Governments might make a complete pigs ear of things, do things we don’t like etc but they are elected by us in a democratic process.

ISIS however want to end of way of life, culture and democracy by any means.

You see what happens when they get some power - the outcome is horrific.

Implying some sort of comparison between the direct deaths from ISIS attacks and austerity is misguided and unnecessary IMO.

It is a good comparison, people are terrible at relative risks.   People losing their minds over this young woman, and people just shut kukushkin down over the link between austerity and the mortality rate.   The diesel/death link is pretty strong too, and I drive one.

Anyway, moving on.

There is a ten minute sky news interview with her on youtube.  I am on my phone and was defeated putting a link up.   I guess it could ve linked to me been unable to see any youtube link on my phone.

Amyway, it is an interesting watch.  She doesn't look in a good way mentally, but I expect that could just as easily be explained by a very recent birth.   She doesn't come across as some entitled young person just expecting a council house.   

It would be good if someone could put it up.

I think you missed the point Doobs.

Whilst the number of people killed directly by ISIS is low, the threat to our way of life, values and democracy by ISIS if unchecked is infinitely more important than the effects of the policies of a democratically elected government.


It would be interesting to know what you thought ISIS was actually going to do to threaten our way of life, values, democracy. Also I have no idea why it’s infinitely more important. One might kill people in large numbers, the other does. Why does it matter if we voted for it?
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #114 on: February 17, 2019, 11:51:07 PM »


I kind of worded that wrong ^^, obviously ISIS isn’t going to kill British citizens in anything other than tiny quantities.
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4KSuited
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« Reply #115 on: February 17, 2019, 11:59:15 PM »

Just watched that SKY interview.

Hard to be sympathetic for her, tbh. Even after being given the opportunity to show some contrition and remorse, she still manages to come across as a desperate teen who simply realises that she's screwed up, big time, but hasn't the intelligence to disguise a transparent, self-serving "after all I've been through, I think I deserve a bit of sympathy" plea. She chooses to state that there's no proof that she's guilty of wrong-doing, rather than unequivocably stating that she was innocent of any bad deeds. She declares that all the online videos about ISIS were what impelled her to travel there - presumably the videos included the beheadings, execution by immolation and executions of homosexuals by throwing them off buildings: no real mention of religious purity. Despite all this, she claims she didn't know what she was getting into. I also noted that things only got notably tough for her "when we lost Raqqah"; a little slip in the cover story.

But then none of this is an excuse for leaving them at the mercy of the conditions in the refugee camp.

The law is such that she retains her UK citizenship, so if she can enlist the services of journos and family members to get her to the nearest consulate, then bring her back here. Let the due process of the law take its course. It's likely that there's a number of offences that she could be charged under; theft, travelling under false documentation, membership of a terrorist organisation and possibly more. Let the security services debrief her to determine whether she has any useful intelligence to reveal. And then let social services decide whether she is fit to keep her child in the event that she doesn't end up doing time in prison.

It's another shit-storm we could have done without, really. The last thing we need is another hugely divisive issue such as this.
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BigAdz
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« Reply #116 on: February 18, 2019, 05:02:26 AM »

All the above solutions are yet another drain on our resources, which will in turn see thousands more die in Kushs austerity driven UK in 2019 though......
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MintTrav
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« Reply #117 on: February 18, 2019, 06:52:41 AM »

It's another shit-storm we could have done without, really. The last thing we need is another hugely divisive issue such as this.

Absolutely true. This whole storm-in-a-teacup is a joke when you consider that dozens of similar women and hundreds of men have already returned from ISIS and have carried on with their lives in Britain without any of this.
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Woodsey
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« Reply #118 on: February 18, 2019, 07:02:20 AM »

It's another shit-storm we could have done without, really. The last thing we need is another hugely divisive issue such as this.

Absolutely true. This whole storm-in-a-teacup is a joke when you consider that dozens of similar women and hundreds of men have already returned from ISIS and have carried on with their lives in Britain without any of this.

Sounds like we need a culling team! 
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RickBFA
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« Reply #119 on: February 18, 2019, 07:40:24 AM »

Playing devil's advocate here somewhat, but has the religious aspect been slightly overlooked here?

The idea of living in an ultra-orthodox caliphate might well have been a key selling-point in persuading deeply religious Muslims to travel to Syria.

Can a 15yr old be said to hold their own deeply religious views? The sense that these young people have been groomed and manipulated is very real.
We probably all held beliefs at 15 that we now see as being wrong. Even BigArz probably had some socialist tendencies in his teens.

We should continue to demonstrate our tolerance and to act as an example of all that is good in Western society. How else can we overcome the excessively intolerant nature of the ‘ultra-orthodox caliphate’.

I’m not suggesting that any specific individual should avoid investigation and possible prosecution for their actions btw. Just saying that before we exile this British citizen we better make damn sure that we have both a good reason for doing so, and a legal framework that allows us to do so.


It's alright Dodgy Dave. Let's all get blown up before we judge anyone.

Quick enough to judge people on here, but prepared to see the best in an ISIS girl.

Says it all really

37 people killed by terrorists in our country since 2010. You do seem overly worried about us all being blown up.

https://fullfact.org/health/austerity-120000-unnecessary-deaths/

Kush, you’ll be telling us that a democratically elected UK government is a bigger threat than ISIS next.

The problem with a ‘threat’ is it means we have to predict the future, we’re all terrible at that. We could just count how many of our citizens they killed, even allowing for the inevitable gross inaccuracies, it’s interesting.

Our Governments might make a complete pigs ear of things, do things we don’t like etc but they are elected by us in a democratic process.

ISIS however want to end of way of life, culture and democracy by any means.

You see what happens when they get some power - the outcome is horrific.

Implying some sort of comparison between the direct deaths from ISIS attacks and austerity is misguided and unnecessary IMO.

It is a good comparison, people are terrible at relative risks.   People losing their minds over this young woman, and people just shut kukushkin down over the link between austerity and the mortality rate.   The diesel/death link is pretty strong too, and I drive one.

Anyway, moving on.

There is a ten minute sky news interview with her on youtube.  I am on my phone and was defeated putting a link up.   I guess it could ve linked to me been unable to see any youtube link on my phone.

Amyway, it is an interesting watch.  She doesn't look in a good way mentally, but I expect that could just as easily be explained by a very recent birth.   She doesn't come across as some entitled young person just expecting a council house.   

It would be good if someone could put it up.

I think you missed the point Doobs.

Whilst the number of people killed directly by ISIS is low, the threat to our way of life, values and democracy by ISIS if unchecked is infinitely more important than the effects of the policies of a democratically elected government.


It would be interesting to know what you thought ISIS was actually going to do to threaten our way of life, values, democracy. Also I have no idea why it’s infinitely more important. One might kill people in large numbers, the other does. Why does it matter if we voted for it?

ISIS ambitions were way beyond Iraq and Syria.

They wanted to destroy western civilisation.

You might laugh at that and say that’s a crazy statement but it’s true.

Wasn’t that long ago we saw a German state killing 6 million Jews.


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