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Author Topic: Churchill: Hero or Villain ?  (Read 756 times)
nirvana
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« on: February 15, 2019, 12:54:45 AM »

Just testing a theory espoused elsewhere.

Also interested in another aspect - Why now, 70-100 years after Churchill exerted any influence, are a small number of people keen to generate and broaden a discussion along these lines
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2019, 01:02:44 AM »

Just testing a theory espoused elsewhere.

Also interested in another aspect - Why now, 70-100 years after Churchill exerted any influence, are a small number of people keen to generate and broaden a discussion along these lines

An excellent war time leader, a racist, a man who turned the military on our own citizens. It’s a bit like Martin Luther King, a misogynist and a true hero of the civil rights movement. It’s not black or white, most people do good and bad.
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Woodsey
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2019, 06:46:08 AM »

Absolute hero, Corbyn is the racialist.....

In all honestly it’s a pointless comparison, most people back then would probably be considered racist by today’s PC wanker standards. Also the people throwing these things out there seem like complete aresholes like that ginger prick the other week and I can’t take them seriously.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 06:55:16 AM by Woodsey » Logged
MintTrav
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2019, 08:15:35 AM »

It's not just that he espoused racist opinions that many (but not all) held at the time - he also carried out plenty of activities that would see him locked up as a war criminal today. WW2 salvaged his reputation for many, but it doesn't erase the awful things he did. If the war hadn't happened, he would have a far less glorious place in history.
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RED-DOG
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2019, 08:49:36 AM »

I wonder if Woodsey has a dedicated 'PC wanker' key on his keyboard?
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2019, 09:05:41 AM »

It's not just that he espoused racist opinions that many (but not all) held at the time - he also carried out plenty of activities that would see him locked up as a war criminal today. WW2 salvaged his reputation for many, but it doesn't erase the awful things he did. If the war hadn't happened, he would have a far less glorious place in history.


I'm not sure why we bother to read this forum, you know before you read each post what each person is going to say............  How true Mint Trav...Roll Eyes

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Doobs
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2019, 09:21:36 AM »

hero and villain.
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DaveShoelace
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2019, 09:27:47 AM »

Even by Blonde standards I'm impressed how quick this turned into the same argument Woodsey and kukuskin88 have been having for three years Smiley

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Woodsey
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2019, 09:33:25 AM »

Even by Blonde standards I'm impressed how quick this turned into the same argument Woodsey and kukuskin88 have been having for three years Smiley

 Click to see full-size image.


Why waste time? Get straight to the nub of it imo 
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Pokerpops
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2019, 09:44:08 AM »

Just testing a theory espoused elsewhere.

Also interested in another aspect - Why now, 70-100 years after Churchill exerted any influence, are a small number of people keen to generate and broaden a discussion along these lines

An excellent war time leader, a racist, a man who turned the military on our own citizens. It’s a bit like Martin Luther King, a misogynist and a true hero of the civil rights movement. It’s not black or white, most people do good and bad.

How dare you be so reasoned and reasonable. This is not the place for such civilised responses.
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nirvana
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2019, 11:08:02 AM »

This is what interests me - in a few messages here there is quite a rationale perspective - incredible hero for a few years when the nation needed a hero and some leadership. Racist much like everyone back then and, as Kuku and MT point out, did some things that were beyond the pale and also beyond the standardised racism of the time.

The sudden propelling of this into the national consciousness for debate just seems like pure attention seeking, gobshitery, from the left this time as it happens. It doesn't serve any useful purpose as far as I can tell and only serves to divide and invite people to line up behind a bizarre binary choice,

Poor Owen Jones was left in the wake of the young guy from Scotland in terms of attention seeking and raising of pointless subjects so had to respond with his own idiotic, self seeking rant yesterday as his position as chief idiot of the woke left was under threat.

nb - love his interviews with people and a percentage of what he writes but man he writes and speaks some utter bollocks for the majority of the time. Labour can never win if voices like his become the received voice of labour and the left.

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the sicilian
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 01:40:37 PM »

Why do certain parts of our society feel the need to track back and try to vilify historical periods of time and noted people . Do we really have nothing better to do ? It was a different time and attitudes and views held popular then now have no place in our grown society. I mean what next..Theresa May apologising for Churchill.

Racism was a part of life back then.. literally there was no ill seen in it and it extended for many years beyond this.. anyone remember 'Love thy neighbour' from the seventies.. was prime time telly.. watch it now and you literally shrink in the chair with equal amounts of shame and shock.

Don't judge history by todays standards and ideals.. it is the reason why we have grown as a society..the realisation that past attitudes were wrong and are being adjusted.

Churchill was a great war time leader and a figure head that galvanised this country in a time of its greatest need. Sit for a moment and consider if we lost the war.. how would our world and lives look now under a sustained facist rule.

We wouldnt be free to express our views openly here for a start.

Churchill was a great man no doubt but also done shameful things and was deeply flawed in many ways.. what leader past and present hasnt done the same..making choices that affect countless lives.. a lot of time for the worse.

He held this country together and made us believe.. for that he derserves his plaudits and statue.

You cannot cut it so black and white.. leave history alone.. its done.. move on and look forward not back..
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2019, 01:59:33 PM »

^^

Same goes for some of these 50yo sexual misconduct allegations imo.
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the sicilian
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2019, 02:01:43 PM »

^^

Same goes for some of these 50yo sexual misconduct allegations imo.

Literally akin to a salem witchunt ...
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Woodsey
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2019, 02:04:40 PM »

Why do certain parts of our society feel the need to track back and try to vilify historical periods of time and noted people . Do we really have nothing better to do ? It was a different time and attitudes and views held popular then now have no place in our grown society. I mean what next..Theresa May apologising for Churchill.

Racism was a part of life back then.. literally there was no ill seen in it and it extended for many years beyond this.. anyone remember 'Love thy neighbour' from the seventies.. was prime time telly.. watch it now and you literally shrink in the chair with equal amounts of shame and shock.

Don't judge history by todays standards and ideals.. it is the reason why we have grown as a society..the realisation that past attitudes were wrong and are being adjusted.

Churchill was a great war time leader and a figure head that galvanised this country in a time of its greatest need. Sit for a moment and consider if we lost the war.. how would our world and lives look now under a sustained facist rule.

We wouldnt be free to express our views openly here for a start.

Churchill was a great man no doubt but also done shameful things and was deeply flawed in many ways.. what leader past and present hasnt done the same..making choices that affect countless lives.. a lot of time for the worse.

He held this country together and made us believe.. for that he derserves his plaudits and statue.

You cannot cut it so black and white.. leave history alone.. its done.. move on and look forward not back..

Because they are twats and really don’t have anything better to do. I agree with everything you say......
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