Kobe Bryant

[arbboy]

MJ pippen and Horace Grant in the first 1991-3 3peat wasn't a bad line up either.   Grant never got the credit he deserved in those teams.  The one thing that come out of the whole thing which i didn't know at the time being a kid and loving the sport rather than the business side of it was how team friendly pippen's contract was for 7 years because he wanted that security for his family from an early point in his career.   Similar to the crazy advantages Golden State have had in their recent run salary cap wise having Curry on a third of the max contract for the first half of their run because of his early ankle issues when he signed his long term year then picking up Durant as a free agent when the salary cap spiked with a huge new tv deal.   Lot of these super teams are the work of the suits tbh bending the cap rules to the max and/or just good fortune on how contracts work out together.

[du pont]

MJ for me is the clear GOAT and i don't think Lebron is the clear cut second everyone likes to make out.  He probably is and will be once he has retired but he isn't in the same league as MJ when it comes to closing games out. 

Pippen - one of the most underrated players in history for me.   His game would have been even more deadly in the modern era because of his flexibility to defend all five positions.  One of the greatest all round defenders the game has ever seen.  Great ball handler for his height in that era which was rare and could score in a number of different ways.   The perfect foil for MJ to do all the dirty work defensively for him on the other teams best player.   MJ was still an all time great defender in his own right but could save his energy so many games for the offensive end where no one could stop him.

Rodman - Rodman is a true one off in NBA history.  Arguably the best rebounder ever pound for pound.  6'8' 230lbs in that ultra physical big men era to constantly lead the league in rebounds by the margins he did was incredible.   Like pippen also an all time top 10 defender who could and did guard players of all positions.  People forget Rodman was a key part of the physical Pistons side in 1988-90 that stopped a young MJ in his tracks from reaching the finals.   
Rodman literally had zero offense though and actually detested that side of the game.

Thanks mate, it looks that way to me ‘as a novice’. I didn’t realise how skilful these guys where. Amazing athletes.

Between the three of them you had one of the most versatile and effective defensive units ever built.  With the greatest scorer in history at the other end they were truly upstoppable.

[arbboy]

If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls Karl Malone and John Stockton would probably both have multiple titles and would both be considered way higher on the all time lists than they are without a title.  Same for Utah's legendary coach Sloan who is never discussed who recently passed away who was also one of the best ever coaches.

All 3 of them are, like P ippen, underrated all time wise because they never won a title.   Their longevity as a trio was incredible.   All three brought it every single night for nearly 2 decades in an era where rotation and resting wasn't the done thing.

[stribling]

Who's in your top 10 Arb?

Also how good was Larry Bird, see his name mentioned alot by MJ in the show.

[kukushkin88]

Who's in your top 10 Arb?

Also how good was Larry Bird, see his name mentioned alot by MJ in the show.

I don’t know the game nearly as well as Arb but as sportsmen go, he had something special both in talent and personality:

https://youtu.be/Uz-Dy89W4HM

[arbboy]

https://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/29105801/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-10-1

espn just run this list during the MJ espn docu the other week.   I will have a think about my top 10 all time but i will only included larry/magic era (1985 onwards) because i can't really comment on prior to that.  

Regarding Larry Bird.  I have him similar to pippen in that he would have been EVEN better in the modern game with his ability to shoot 3's from anywhere in an era when the 3 point shot wasn't taking seriously he used to shoot 500 of them before he had his breakfast every day alongside 500 free throws legend has it.  He was 25 years ahead of his time the way he played with very limited athletic talent relative to other all time greats.  His will to win was just incredible.

Pretty sure he was the first (or one of the first members) of the very elite and highly exclusive 50/40/90 shooting club where a player went the whole season shooting 50% from the field/40% from 3 and 90% from the free throw line.  Pretty sure Steph curry did 50/45/90 or got super close in his MVP season a few years ago.  the 50/40/90 club has very few members all time.

Larry and Magic made the nba what it is today in the glory era of the 1980s and the lakers/celtics decade long rivalry.  Before them the nba was in such a state the nba finals wasn't even shown live on national tv.  MJ and the dream team in 1992 just took the nba to another level globally on court and sponsorship wise off it selling nike trainers.

[arbboy]

Who's in your top 10 Arb?

Also how good was Larry Bird, see his name mentioned alot by MJ in the show.

I don’t know the game nearly as well as Arb but as sportsmen go, he had something special both in talent and personality:

https://youtu.be/Uz-Dy89W4HM

That is a superb highliights reel.   I seen most of them but never heard of the game he played left handed and still scored 27 points on a quality defender!   That's insane.  He could talk trash with the very best of them as well and back it right up.

My personal two fav bird moments are on that video.  The first 3 point shooting competition when he looks around and asks 'who is coming second?' then torches everyone in sight.  6'9 guys didn't shoot 3's in the 1980s very often.  

The second one was the over the backboard shot he made in a game which is now banned because of Larry's cheek of even attempting it and making it.

[arbboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxf4RzocHN8

Another great larry video if you got a spare 20 mins.

[arbboy]

My top 15 1985-2200 is as follows:

1 - MJ
2 - Lebron
3 - Tim Duncan
4= Magic
4= Larry
6 - Shaq
7 - Hakeem Olajuwon
8 - Steph Curry
9 - Kevin Durant
10 - Kobe
11= Karl Malone
11=John Stockton
13 - Pippen
14 - Dirk Nowitzki
15 - Kevin Garnett

So hard to place relative youngsters like 'the greek freak', Kawhi Leonard, James Harden on this list as they still have so long left in their careers to go.  Curry and Durant are similar ages but are just different class to these three on achievements so far.  The greek freak could easily end up as number 2 or 3 on this list in 10 years time.  Harden and Leonard are much more exposed and probably found their level all time already just outside this list unless more titles and individual awards appear in the future.

Honourable mentions of retired guys i loved but not quite good enough to make the top 15.  Dwayne Wade and Sir Charles Barkley.

[Karabiner]

My top 15 1985-2200 is as follows:

1 - MJ
2 - Lebron
3 - Tim Duncan
4= Magic
4= Larry
6 - Shaq
7 - Hakeem Olajuwon
8 - Steph Curry
9 - Kevin Durant
10 - Kobe
11= Karl Malone
11=John Stockton
13 - Pippen
14 - Dirk Nowitzki
15 - Kevin Garnett

So hard to place relative youngsters like 'the greek freak', Kawhi Leonard, James Harden on this list as they still have so long left in their careers to go.  Curry and Durant are similar ages but are just different class to these three on achievements so far.  The greek freak could easily end up as number 2 or 3 on this list in 10 years time.  Harden and Leonard are much more exposed and probably found their level all time already just outside this list unless more titles and individual awards appear in the future.

Honourable mentions of retired guys i loved but not quite good enough to make the top 15.  Dwayne Wade and Sir Charles Barkley.

When did Kareem A-J retire?

I remember him being the dominant player in my youth.

[arbboy]

My top 15 1985-2200 is as follows:

1 - MJ
2 - Lebron
3 - Tim Duncan
4= Magic
4= Larry
6 - Shaq
7 - Hakeem Olajuwon
8 - Steph Curry
9 - Kevin Durant
10 - Kobe
11= Karl Malone
11=John Stockton
13 - Pippen
14 - Dirk Nowitzki
15 - Kevin Garnett

So hard to place relative youngsters like 'the greek freak', Kawhi Leonard, James Harden on this list as they still have so long left in their careers to go.  Curry and Durant are similar ages but are just different class to these three on achievements so far.  The greek freak could easily end up as number 2 or 3 on this list in 10 years time.  Harden and Leonard are much more exposed and probably found their level all time already just outside this list unless more titles and individual awards appear in the future.

Honourable mentions of retired guys i loved but not quite good enough to make the top 15.  Dwayne Wade and Sir Charles Barkley.

When did Kareem A-J retire?

I remember him being the dominant player in my youth.

He retired in the late 1980s after a 20 year career.  His peak was the 1970s/early 80s so i discounted him from my lifetime list as he was before my time pretty much.   He was the cut off point.  Still the all time total points scorer in NBA history to this day.   Will be interesting to see if Lebron can play long enough at a high enough level to catch him. 

[Karabiner]

My top 15 1985-2200 is as follows:

1 - MJ
2 - Lebron
3 - Tim Duncan
4= Magic
4= Larry
6 - Shaq
7 - Hakeem Olajuwon
8 - Steph Curry
9 - Kevin Durant
10 - Kobe
11= Karl Malone
11=John Stockton
13 - Pippen
14 - Dirk Nowitzki
15 - Kevin Garnett

So hard to place relative youngsters like 'the greek freak', Kawhi Leonard, James Harden on this list as they still have so long left in their careers to go.  Curry and Durant are similar ages but are just different class to these three on achievements so far.  The greek freak could easily end up as number 2 or 3 on this list in 10 years time.  Harden and Leonard are much more exposed and probably found their level all time already just outside this list unless more titles and individual awards appear in the future.

Honourable mentions of retired guys i loved but not quite good enough to make the top 15.  Dwayne Wade and Sir Charles Barkley.

When did Kareem A-J retire?

I remember him being the dominant player in my youth.

He retired in the late 1980s after a 20 year career.  His peak was the 1970s/early 80s so i discounted him from my lifetime list as he was before my time pretty much.   He was the cut off point.  Still the all time total points scorer in NBA history to this day.   Will be interesting to see if Lebron can play long enough at a high enough level to catch him. 

I remember KAJ had this move from the side where he would feint one way and turn back before usually finding the net.

He used to do this literally dozens of times every game and everyone knew he was going to do it but it was so convincing everybody always bought the move. I lack the correct words to describe it but I'm sure you understand.

[arbboy]

My top 15 1985-2200 is as follows:

1 - MJ
2 - Lebron
3 - Tim Duncan
4= Magic
4= Larry
6 - Shaq
7 - Hakeem Olajuwon
8 - Steph Curry
9 - Kevin Durant
10 - Kobe
11= Karl Malone
11=John Stockton
13 - Pippen
14 - Dirk Nowitzki
15 - Kevin Garnett

So hard to place relative youngsters like 'the greek freak', Kawhi Leonard, James Harden on this list as they still have so long left in their careers to go.  Curry and Durant are similar ages but are just different class to these three on achievements so far.  The greek freak could easily end up as number 2 or 3 on this list in 10 years time.  Harden and Leonard are much more exposed and probably found their level all time already just outside this list unless more titles and individual awards appear in the future.

Honourable mentions of retired guys i loved but not quite good enough to make the top 15.  Dwayne Wade and Sir Charles Barkley.

When did Kareem A-J retire?

I remember him being the dominant player in my youth.

He retired in the late 1980s after a 20 year career.  His peak was the 1970s/early 80s so i discounted him from my lifetime list as he was before my time pretty much.   He was the cut off point.  Still the all time total points scorer in NBA history to this day.   Will be interesting to see if Lebron can play long enough at a high enough level to catch him. 

I remember KAJ had this move from the side where he would feint one way and turn back before usually finding the net.

He used to do this literally dozens of times every game and everyone knew he was going to do it but it was so convincing everybody always bought the move. I lack the correct words to describe it but I'm sure you understand.

He pretty much invented the sky hook which with his arm length was undefendable.  Think thats what you are referring to. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPcniUfKRlU

[Karabiner]

My top 15 1985-2200 is as follows:

1 - MJ
2 - Lebron
3 - Tim Duncan
4= Magic
4= Larry
6 - Shaq
7 - Hakeem Olajuwon
8 - Steph Curry
9 - Kevin Durant
10 - Kobe
11= Karl Malone
11=John Stockton
13 - Pippen
14 - Dirk Nowitzki
15 - Kevin Garnett

So hard to place relative youngsters like 'the greek freak', Kawhi Leonard, James Harden on this list as they still have so long left in their careers to go.  Curry and Durant are similar ages but are just different class to these three on achievements so far.  The greek freak could easily end up as number 2 or 3 on this list in 10 years time.  Harden and Leonard are much more exposed and probably found their level all time already just outside this list unless more titles and individual awards appear in the future.

Honourable mentions of retired guys i loved but not quite good enough to make the top 15.  Dwayne Wade and Sir Charles Barkley.

When did Kareem A-J retire?

I remember him being the dominant player in my youth.

He retired in the late 1980s after a 20 year career.  His peak was the 1970s/early 80s so i discounted him from my lifetime list as he was before my time pretty much.   He was the cut off point.  Still the all time total points scorer in NBA history to this day.   Will be interesting to see if Lebron can play long enough at a high enough level to catch him. 

I remember KAJ had this move from the side where he would feint one way and turn back before usually finding the net.

He used to do this literally dozens of times every game and everyone knew he was going to do it but it was so convincing everybody always bought the move. I lack the correct words to describe it but I'm sure you understand.

He pretty much invented the sky hook which with his arm length was undefendable.  Think thats what you are referring to. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPcniUfKRlU

Not that, but I do remember being educated about the sky-hook and other throws by a neighbour of mine who was a Celtics fanatic.

 He would be on or near the base-line(?) with his back to the net usually on the right near the 3-point line and pretend to turn inside to his left(an almost impossible angle) then having sold the dummy to the defender turn back to his right and throw for the basket.

You won't have to watch his h/l for long to see this move.