What Could I have done to win the hand?

[Bobwah]

ifm, it wasn't your criticism of the play I had an issue with, it was the way you phrased it. For a place full of sunshine and smiles (yeah I'm talking about the Blonde Forum) the words "terrible call" were harsh and unjustified. As far as your play goes it looks as though you'd be the only player on this thread to get away form the hand with most of your stack in tact.

I think the case for all-in has already been beautifully made by us chuck-it-all-in merchants by rivered, M3boy and myself, so I just have one niggly issue with the case for the other side.

It seems to be common opinion that AJ can't be moved from this pot and is going to get all his chips in regardless. Well that's not really how I read the hand. Canuck bet into the flop with a sort of tickly bet which induced a bluff from his opponent. Using my expert powers of deduction (sarcasm) I reckon he was trying to represent a Q. Had Canuck or DC moved all-in before him I'm pretty sure he'd have laid down the hand as there was no chance to win the pot without a showdown. Canuck's bet opened the door for AJ to make a last ditch attempt to steal the pot.

I'm not saying Canuck should've moved all-in on the flop (you all know the point in the hand where I would've pushed) as that could've been suicidal with the paired board. I'm suggesting that perhaps the player isn't as big a fish as it seems and may lay down AJ pre-flop to the re-raise, because the rest of the hand gives no genuine evidence that he won't. He made the last six of this tourney, maybe he's actually quite good. No, that's just silly talk.

[ifm]

Ok phrasing aside, would anyone else have called the allin?
Most advocate allin preflop but that is not what happened, given the way the hand went would you call the huge bet for most of your chips with a paired board having put him on a possible queen preflop?

[Royal Flush]

Ok phrasing aside, would anyone else have called the allin?
Most advocate allin preflop but that is not what happened, given the way the hand went would you call the huge bet for most of your chips with a paired board having put him on a possible queen preflop?

I never would have led out, it makes it hard for anyone to put money in with a worse hand, 90% of the time hands lik AK AJ get away from us because of the bet, and hads lik 73 which may have been stealing the blinds are away aswell. This flop is a deffo check.

If i had bet it and then been raised i.....well i dont know what i would do as i would never lead out.

[Canuck]

Glad to see this hand is getting a lot of attention as I have done plenty of thinking on it and this thread has helped greatly.

Royal Flush, I see why you would not lead out, but I was simply hoping to take the hand there. If I see a small bet at me from the original rasier, I am very very cautious, proabably folding. I had hoped that would do the same for me, a small bet that looks suspicious and he folds.

If I check the flop, as does Dave and the original raiser, I am folding to any bet after the ace on the turn 110% of the time. Perhaps if I bet more on the flop, maybe 14K he thinks more about folding as I am obviously pot committed.

Frustrating game this poker......why do I love it so much?

[Royal Flush]

why not check raise the original raiser?

[Canuck]

I thought of that, but there is no guaruntee he bets and the turn brings his ace. I save a lot of money but still dont win the hand.

A good thought though

[totalise]

Ok phrasing aside, would anyone else have called the allin?
Most advocate allin preflop but that is not what happened, given the way the hand went would you call the huge bet for most of your chips with a paired board having put him on a possible queen preflop?

against your typical opponent, I think its a pretty easy call. I put one down in the 'call' camp. Its like the game of chicken.. the original raiser doesn't think our hero leads out with the Q, and the OP doesn't think the villain jams with a Q. Naturally, its possible that they do, but in the world of slowplay, it doesn't happen *that* often.

I like leading when its three way... the problem  I see with check-raising is that DC hand is still hidden.. button bets, you jam, and Dave insta calls you are almost dead. If you lead, Dave raises, and button jams, you are almost dead. Leading lets you find that out before your stack is in the middle, not after. Its certainly not a *deffo* check.  HU it would be closer to a *deffo* check, but there is a lot to be said for inducing the re-bluff by leading here.


Secondly if his range is AK--AJ.. the fact that there are 2 Queens on the flop makes it less likely that said villain has AQ, although that doesn't help us too much after he has jammed.

[Royal Flush]

Right so you lead and Dave moves in, he started with 20k, put 6k in pre flop, then moves on the flop after u lead for 8k. How exactly are you going to fold for 6k more?

I agree if DC had more chips then a lead is the better move, but the check raise is the optimal move here IMO

[M3boy]

The danger with check raising here, is that you are giving your opponent the chance to "all in" first.

Would you call then?!? - Probably not.

This is such a difficult hand to play post flop (with that flop and on many other flops) - get it all in preflop. This way you will never be folding the winning hand

[Royal Flush]

The danger with check raising here, is that you are giving your opponent the chance to "all in" first.

Would you call then?!? - Probably not.

Of course you would. You are behind to 2 hands that move in here, AA and KK.

get it all in preflop. This way you will never be folding the winning hand

Same goes for 22, always push!