£100 Pot Limit Tournament - Grosvenor Walsall Festival - Final table Collusion

[chunkymick]

Tonight i was lucky enough to make the final table at the £100 pot limit tournament at The Grosvenor Walsall Casino, but ended up being disgusted by the whole experience. The final table had been in progress for about an hour when I noticed that alot of the "local players" were checking the flops out and not betting against each other.
The following then happened, Local player in seat 9 raises another local players big blind (seat 3) and the player in seat 3 then proceeds to have a slanging match with the player in seat 9 saying that they agreed not to raise each other. This makes a mockery and goes against the spirt of the game. to make things worse the following happened about 10 minutes later.
Local player (seat 9) on small blind calls local player (seat 1) on big blind. the flop comes      . The player in seat 9 has made a set with his    and the player in seat 1 made two pairs with his    . no betting was made and the flop was checked out.

I then made  a conscious decision to basically gamble with any two cards and get myself out of there. I came 7th for £700.00.

A representative from Blue square was watching and commented that basically it was cheating. I was sat in the middle of three "local players" who would not bet against each other.

This tournament , from what I beleive was a ranking event and I beleive all the points should be stripped from all the players including myself. No comments or actions were taken by the management who were also watching the game.

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Colchester Kev]

Mick, if I was you i would have stood up and called the cardroom supervisor over and DEMANDED that as there was obviously no chance of a fair game, they should just split the prize pool equally among the players... and then i would have told each individual player that you were going to name and shame them and make sure everyone was aware of the way they CHEAT.

[chunkymick]

Basically I am a big softie and didnt want tio make a official complaint. I don't really play poker for the money i play to WIN and usually bust out trying to. I have made a decision to not play any of the Walsall nightly competitions anymore, which will be to their detriment as unfortunately I normally lose on roulette.

[thetank]

If anything happens like this, I think it's important to make a noise about it before you get busted out of the tournament.

It might slow the game down to a stop, but it forces management to do something about it.

[Karabiner]

I have posted about this before Micky, and I sympathise.

It's mostly the old Rainbow players who have been playing(?) together for years.

They just don't seem to think that they're doing anything wrong.

[Thrapton]

'The following then happened, Local player in seat 9 raises another local players big blind (seat 3) and the player in seat 3 then proceeds to have a slanging match with the player in seat 9 saying that they agreed not to raise each other.'


Upon hearing those words I would have gone absolutely bananas, it is one thing suspecting collusion but verbal confirmation means action MUST be taken.  I would have demanded disqualification for the two players involved.

This is just plain cheating IMHO and cannot be tolerated, the fact that the management did nothing does not suprise me as when ever I have played at Walsall I have been unimpressed with the staff running one of Grosvenors flagship poker sites.

[ACE2M]

It's a joke that this can happen. Do the management not want to offend the players?
What chance have you got if you are the only player at the table not in a deal with everyone else.

UL mick.

[MrMoves]

This is disgraceful.  They admit to collusion and nothing is done?

 

[AndrewT]

Crap like this is the reason so many people stay away from playing poker in casinos - they assume that locals cheat. To do it so blatantly, and admit to it out loud, must mean that they don't actually realise they are doing anything that wrong - they just view it as helping out their friends.

To have management not do anything about it means either a) card room management is very weak or b) there are instructions not to upset the 'locals' if they happen to be donators in the casino.

As someone else said:

[M3boy]

You would not of been able to keep me quiet if this happened to me.

I would of kicked up such a fuss that either they were BOTH disqualified , or I was banned!!

[TightEnd]

This stinks of course

I would do the following

Write to Grosvenor Head office, and the Walsall General Manager...giving names of both the players which you will get from the official results and the Walsall staff present.

I would copy the letter to Jon Shoreman at Poker in Europe

In the letter I would state that the offending players should be banned, that there should be a disciplinary procedure against the staff for dereliction of duty and that all ranking points for the final table should be stripped from the competitors.

I would not set foot in that casino out of principle until I got a satisfactory response.


I must also clarify, I was on Monday's final table with seven locals, and the game was played hard and fair. I would imagine here we are talking about a small group not the vast majority of Walsall players . In my experience its a difficult place to play (the Walsall players are GOOD) but I have never come across this.

[RED-DOG]

Many many times I have heard players openly say "We don't bet against each other" 

Not just at Walsall, but everywhere.

I have even heard them give a commentry to each other as the board cards are dealt, "Ive made the straight"  "I hit two pair"

The other thing that happens quite openly is one player picks his chips up to bet, looks at his mate, and his mate picks up his cards and holds them in the "I'm passing these" position

Imho, Dealers should be taught to look out for soft play, and shoud also look at the hole cards that are folded in some situations.  The dealers at Annabelles in Coventry used to do this and often found that someone had folded the nuts

[edy g]

hi mick,ed giddins here,after you left it got worse,the short stack [seat 9] went allin for approx 17k and his local mate in seat3 [who had 50k+] folded his big blind to him [blinds 4-8k]and then flipped over his cards and showed  .

[Royal Flush]

Simply disgusting.

Like Paul said, i would have either had them chucked or been barred myself.

Ed did you not kick up a fuss? Or were you just so shocked to be at the final table again!! 

[BlueWolf]

Unfortunately guys this is something that happens up and down the country, although the midlands has become very well known for "same village play", i personally think its disgraceful especialy during a lower festival event, where itsa some peoples best chance to mix it up with the big players in a festival enviroment.

Its a very hard thing to prove and act against in normal play, but on a final table shorthanded(?) really there is no excuse for this, neither player could claim they didnt know where they were in regards to the hand (that excuse wouldnt fly after making it through a field of 100+). In the first instance (before any verbal admissioin) both players should have at least been warned about their conduct, but after a verbal admission and further misgivings then both players should have been removed from play IMO.

Same village play is disgraceful even in £10 comps. Last week we got mauled for having all cards shown in showdowns (which i agree was too much for certain events) but in circumstances like this it goes a long way to stopping the problem, or at least makes us aware of whats going on.

Personally name and shame them, make the rankings people aware of this, and make it known it wont be stood for!!