Your move.....1

[clayftknight]

You hold JJ, you have 8500, average is 7000

buyin $215
blinds are 200/400
1500 left, 825 paid.

EP makes it 800
cut off calls
They both have 4500 ish before the hand.
you are on the button, SB has 2000, BB has 12,000.

your move............

[AdamM]

hard to have a 'general' tactic for this specific situation. I am often tempted to call the minimum raise (which could well be a bigger pair) and look for a no set / no bet flop. in this situation I might make it 1600 hoping the SB under-raises all in. I am hoping the BB goes away and the initial raiser and caller cant re-raise because of the under-raise. then it may get checked to the turn or even river, giving me longer to catch my set.

The risk here is that if the BB finds a hand he likes and pushes the two 4500 stacks might follow and you're in a tricky spot with your 8500 and middle pair. that's why I probably revert to calling and looking for a set of if it checks to me post flop having a 2000 stab.

[Bongo]

in this situation I might make it 1600 hoping the SB under-raises all in. I am hoping the BB goes away and the initial raiser and caller cant re-raise because of the under-raise. then it may get checked to the turn or even river, giving me longer to catch my set.

Initial raiser would be raising your raise though so the SBs underraise would stop nothing (apart from you raising if everyone else calls).

Minraise UTG can mean many things - sometimes it's a big pair that wents action, some people use it to build a pot and to try and deter a raise behind them with say a medium pair or suited connectors.

My decision would be based on how UTG had played previously and how i felt about the hand.

[clayftknight]

I had just arrived at the table so no info on them, and they had none on me.

[M3boy]

I am tempted to push here. But thats just me and JJ 

[thetank]

hard to have a 'general' tactic for this specific situation. I am often tempted to call the minimum raise (which could well be a bigger pair) and look for a no set / no bet flop. in this situation I might make it 1600 hoping the SB under-raises all in. I am hoping the BB goes away and the initial raiser and caller cant re-raise because of the under-raise. then it may get checked to the turn or even river, giving me longer to catch my set.

I like  

The risk here is that if the BB finds a hand he likes and pushes the two 4500 stacks might follow and you're in a tricky spot with your 8500 and middle pair.

If that happens, I don't see the trickiness of the spot at all. The action has gone Mini raise from UTG/Call/Re-raise/re-re raise all-in/call/call and then it's up to you with JJ.

Shouldn't take more than a few seconds to fold here only being in for one and a half K.

[clayftknight]

I pushed all in, everyone folded 

[AdamM]

Shouldn't take more than a few seconds to fold here only being in for one and a half K.
[/quote]

yeah you're right. I make correct decisions like that live. Online I make calls like that with JJ, just because the standard of play is so bad and I may well be ahead. ironically by making the call with JJ Im adding to the low standard of play. If I could just make the same decisions online as I do live Im sure Id be more profitable, even if I'd be folding a lot of winners,

[M3boy]

VERY true Adam

Recently, I have been doing this more and more (more like live play)

And I am certain that I am folding winning hands some of the time - but the standard is bad enough to catch them later

Hard to do, but well worth it! 

[The Rivercard]

Risky here to move all in.

the SB could have seen value with a Ace or connectors, that in turn could create other problems. I hate JJ though usually use any excuse to fold them, Justine Z knocked me out of the Bahamas tourney ( on the bubble )in 2005 cos I played them badly so I AM biased. I think I would have flat called and seen what the flop would bring.

[clayftknight]

What you have to remember is JJ is only losing to 3 hands, also I have both the stacks that have put money in covered.

So, be first in, make them sweat, don't fear monsters under the bed.

[AdamM]

lol, didnt realise there were right and wrong answers here, thought you were after opinions.

[clayftknight]

In your previous post Adam you talked about making 'correct decisions live'  so are you saying there are correct moves or not? 

[AdamM]

believe it or not when I get knocked out of a live game it's invariabley a badbeat. it's very rare I get ALL my money in behind or even 50/50. when I get knocked out of a tournament it's normally accompanied by a collective groan followed by sympathetic "unlucky"s and 'thats poker shrugs'.
Online however Im owning up to usually going out due to misreads or loose calls. sure there are beats online too but not nearly as much. I often run into big hands and just dont see it til its too late.

[The Rivercard]

What you have to remember is JJ is only losing to 3 hands, also I have both the stacks that have put money in covered.

So, be first in, make them sweat, don't fear monsters under the bed.

I strongly dissagree with this statement. There are only 3 hands that are ahead but there are 3 that Effectivly are a coin flip and you are assuming that everyone is going to use the Math to decide on there call. You have no information on these players and could easily be raised by a Fish holding A/9 Its happened to me hundreds of times. JJ is a dangerous hand treat it wiht respect or you will be out of the game. You have 4 players sytill in your game if you want t o apply the Math if 2 call you statistically you are likely to be the underdog. You may win with aggression here but I believe in the long run a raise or all in is the wrong move.