Searching for the best in world...

[Maroon]

With the WSOP main event having over 5600 entrants there is possibly a greater need for lady luck to be on your side to make it through to the final table than any other tournament.  I am not saying the finalists have no skill before anyone jumps on me.  Clearly they do but there is luck needed to get to the final table in any tournament and this was a massive field to get through.

Which tournament or league then allows for the greater ratio of skill/luck?

[Ironside]

Which tournament or league then allows for the greater ratio of skill/luck?

the International casino's festival of poker Irish rebuy event

[Robert HM]

Oh yeah!?
And who won that then?

(you owe me a fiver for feeding you this line!)

[tikay]

Try guessing "blind". With 3 runners, it'd only be a 2/1 shot.......

[AdamM]

people talk about $25k entry making it more elite. why not go even further. if you want to find out who the best of the big names is (on that day only, I have often argued against the notion of a 'best' player) why not make it BIG. $100k entry
you'd pretty much get only the top money earners in the game.

Now that I'd like to see.

[Maroon]

Who's to say a big name is the best in the world?  Might be a lesser well known player but how would you find out?

[AdamM]

no, what I'm saying is with Poker, as with many other things, there is NO best in the world. The WSOP didn't establish the best player in the world this year, this festival or even this tournament. the winner of a poker tournament isn't the best player.

[Maroon]

Fair point.  I think after trying, unsuccessfully, to work out a formula to ascertain the best player I have to agree with you.

[tikay]

I disagree with AdamM in the way he has tried to make his point here, here, but reallly, I think he has the same view as me.

What he really means, I venture to suggest, is that the WSOP, WPT, or any other event would not necessarily determine who was the best player in the world. There most certainly MUST be a "world's best player", but there is no accurate measuring criteria that can ascertain who it is.

By definition, there MUST be a world's best player, but we will never know who he or she is.

Let us hypothesise that, say, Greg Raymer really IS that man. He could enter 10 consecutive WSOP's, never win one of them, yet still be the best player in the world. That is cdue to the balance betwen luck & skill.

The nearest we can get here in Europe is to use the William Hill European Rankings ("Powered by Poker in Europe.com") as a guide. They are based on a calender year, and they also have a "rolling year". Any player that consistently sits at or near the top of that over a period of several years would be excused for thinking that he or she was more than likely to be a genuine candidate for Europe's best player.

[AdamM]

No Tikay, it appears we do funamentally disagree on this one (nice how that can happen in such a friendly way here isn't it)
I don't think my definition there MUST be a 'best' at all. that implies a finite skill level. a perfection. in order to have a scale you must have a top and a bottom. asking who is the best is exactly the same as asking who is the worst. you can't answer it.

lets take a couple of obvious big names. how would you determine who is the better player between Ivey and Brunson. how many times would one have to out perform another to be considered better. if they both entered 100 tourneys and Phil Ivey out lasted Doyle Brunson in 60 would that make him the better player. what's to say the next 100 tourneys wouldn't swing back the other way.

[tikay]

Well that would make Ivey the better player at that time.

[Maroon]

hmmm....I feel I've opened a can of worms here.  Still, good for the mental agility.  Keep thinking everyone. 

[divaflava]

this is why poker players need a proper organisation. How can you properly capitalise on the money-making potential of a sport where nobody knows who is number one?

poker is where tennis was in the early 70s. doesn't mark mcormakenroe (sic) play poker ffs?

the sport needs to grow up , agree a unified tournament structure system etc. as I'm sure various debbie harries have argued before me in order to market itself beyond the pokerbrat mentality. I, for one, am fed up, explaining to relatives/friends that it's not a game of chance.

[Yogi-Bear]

The Sport will never grow up i'm afraid.

Too many companies out for what they want.

Too many players out for what they want.

And never the twain shall meet.

Organised rules? Festivals not overlapping?? Organised players? Organised operators??

I would help in any small way I can. I have sounded out a few card room supervisors, about getting together sometime to organise some rules that everyone could be happy about. And gotten some good responses. However, this would probably not be at a high enough level to make companies sit up and do what we want of them.

How about as an idea? And i am gonna write this as i think of it.

Idea.  We get together as many card room supervisors, and a few players from each locale together and take a few days to sit and organise the rules. These could then be taken back to clubs and given the once over by the majority of players. Any problems could be ironed out at a further meeting with lots of input from the people who are going to be using them. Then we can go to the operators and say. LOOK WE AS "POKER LOVERS" have formulated these rules. The Supervisors who have to implement these rules like them, and feel they could work. Can you as a company adopt these rules??? And maybe even The Gaming Board/Commisiion could be lobbied to change guidelines if they need changing.

I for one would join in. And the several supervisors I have spoken to would get involved. CAn the players get people together to speak for them? Then we could organise a meeting. Come on Tikay I know you are interested. Its not good enough for someone to come up with some rules that we can all use. Not that easy. We need to sit down and formulate and organise.

Idea Over

Yogi

[Ironside]

Idea. We get together as many card room supervisors, and a few players from each locale together and take a few days to sit and organise the rules. These could then be taken back to clubs and given the once over by the majority of players. Any problems could be ironed out at a further meeting with lots of input from the people who are going to be using them. Then we can go to the operators and say. LOOK WE AS "POKER LOVERS" have formulated these rules. The Supervisors who have to implement these rules like them, and feel they could work. Can you as a company adopt these rules??? And maybe even The Gaming Board/Commisiion could be lobbied to change guidelines if they need changing.

I for one would join in. And the several supervisors I have spoken to would get involved. CAn the players get people together to speak for them? Then we could organise a meeting. Come on Tikay I know you are interested. Its not good enough for someone to come up with some rules that we can all use. Not that easy. We need to sit down and formulate and organise.

Idea Over

Yogi

wow how great minds think alike even if you copy my post nearly word for word from a couple of months back
now we have 1 card room super on side all we need is a couple more and to get players to put them selves forward

i am willing to help out in anyway needed