I'm a deep stack calling station, Stars $10 rebuy

[byronkincaid]

PokerStars Game #4625678795: Tournament #22780594, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2006/04/14 - 18:43:05 (ET)
Table '22780594 28' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: ByronKincaid (57120 in chips)
Seat 2: mamalove11 (54092 in chips)
Seat 3: thorn50 (37708 in chips)
Seat 4: GOLDAR (14100 in chips)
Seat 6: Karmar55 (17390 in chips)
Seat 7: ace1ofhearts (8085 in chips)
Seat 8: kittykat6 (17130 in chips)
Seat 9: gorgo (25699 in chips)
ByronKincaid: posts the ante 25
mamalove11: posts the ante 25
thorn50: posts the ante 25
GOLDAR: posts the ante 25
Karmar55: posts the ante 25
ace1ofhearts: posts the ante 25
kittykat6: posts the ante 25
gorgo: posts the ante 25
thorn50: posts small blind 100
GOLDAR: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ByronKincaid [ ]
Karmar55: raises 600 to 800
ace1ofhearts: folds
kittykat6: folds
natdog100 is connected
gorgo: folds
ByronKincaid: calls 800
mamalove11: raises 2000 to 2800
thorn50: folds
GOLDAR: folds
Karmar55: calls 2000
ByronKincaid: calls 2000
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Karmar55: checks
ByronKincaid: checks
mamalove11: checks
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Karmar55: bets 1000
ByronKincaid: calls 1000
mamalove11: raises 3000 to 4000
Karmar55: calls 3000
ByronKincaid: calls 3000
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
Karmar55: bets 10565 and is all-in
ByronKincaid:

Do you like the way I played this hand and what would you do next?

[byronkincaid]

And again...

PokerStars Game #4625816970: Tournament #22780594, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/04/14 - 18:56:03 (ET)
Table '22780594 28' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: ByronKincaid (50120 in chips)
Seat 2: mamalove11 (75732 in chips)
Seat 3: thorn50 (34508 in chips)
Seat 4: theTaxMan75' (31335 in chips)
Seat 5: natdog100 (17461 in chips)
Seat 6: calo1969 (21615 in chips)
Seat 7: ace1ofhearts (9185 in chips)
Seat 8: kittykat6 (17430 in chips)
Seat 9: gorgo (40274 in chips)
ByronKincaid: posts the ante 25
mamalove11: posts the ante 25
thorn50: posts the ante 25
theTaxMan75': posts the ante 25
natdog100: posts the ante 25
calo1969: posts the ante 25
ace1ofhearts: posts the ante 25
kittykat6: posts the ante 25
gorgo: posts the ante 25
thorn50: posts small blind 200
theTaxMan75': posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ByronKincaid [ ]
natdog100: folds
calo1969: folds
ace1ofhearts: folds
kittykat6: folds
gorgo: raises 400 to 800
ByronKincaid: calls 800
mamalove11: calls 800
thorn50: raises 1200 to 2000
theTaxMan75': folds
gorgo: calls 1200
ByronKincaid: calls 1200
mamalove11: calls 1200
*** FLOP *** [ As]
thorn50: bets 2000
gorgo: folds
ByronKincaid: calls 2000
mamalove11: folds
*** TURN *** [ As] []
thorn50: checks
ByronKincaid: bets 6400
thorn50: calls 6400
*** RIVER *** [ As ] []
thorn50: checks
ByronKincaid:

[SupaMonkey]

2nd one bet a reasonable amount, he is clearly scared by what you have however his play is inconsistent and i am struggling to put him on a hand. 1st one call.

[ifm]

second one, get the hell out of that hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First one call

[TightEnd]

first one looks like he the reraiser had AK on the turn, and both might beat you but even so I think I make a crying call.

The guy going all in on the river? no idea tbh


second one I value bet...the way he played the turn looks like a diamond draw, or possibly trying to keep pot as small as possible with a decent pair... 

[totalise]

hand 1) you dont need to be ahead that often to justify the call, and in this spot you aren't ahead very often.. so its going to depend on reads as much as anything. Remember that the guy *behind* you raised the turn, into both of you, so even the times you have the jammer beat, you aren't always beating the guy behind you. Its close, swaying me more towards a fold then a call.

hand 2) Its tempting to make a value bet, but hes raised a smallish amount preflop into a table that was already active,  which is generally a pretty strong sign. I dont mind just checking and getting to showdown, stops you from suffering any potential headaches. The deeper the stack, the more important in general (imo) it is to just get to showdown. I hate betting in spots where I would hate a re-raise, and this is one of those spots, as you aren't always going to get raised by better hands.. it creates headaches.. and avoiding headache situations stops you from making mistakes. Maybe you are sacrificing a bit of equity, but there are worse crimes then that

[byronkincaid]

Ok I was hoping to get some comments on how I played before the river on these hands, here is what I was thinking at the time please feel free to tear me a new ass...

Stacks are deep, this is why I have started playing these tourneys and some cash as well cos it is a completely different game to what I'm used to being the SNG donk that I am. For example AA is the easiest hand to play in a SNG but can be very tricky when everyone has 100+ BBs.

Hand 1 I call a raise with TT, I am trying to flop a set and stack him off, he hasn't got a huge stack but on the other hand I can afford to lose a few chips here no problem. We get reraised and the original raiser calls so I have 1000000000000/1 odds and it would be lovely to stack mamalove off so I call.

If anyone bets the flop I'm outta here but nobody does and I hit my set. Woo Hoo but what if someone has AK? I'm only feeling good about this hand if I river a Full House and for a little bet and a small reraise I'm calling. I don't think I can get away from this hand here?

River and dude suddenly loves his hand enough to go all in. Hmmmmmm I take about 2 seconds to fold. A set is great but not on this board with 2 opponents acting very strong. Dude has QQ for a bigger set but is called by mamalove with his AK.

Hand 2 same situation preflop with shallow stacks I drop AT like a hot potato but hey I gotta lotta chips lets see a flop and see if we can flop 2 pair or better. Again we get reraised but this time I'm getting 20000000000000000000/1 so I call like the calling station that I am.

A high flop I'm outta here with any bet but wait a minute he only bets 2000. WTF is going on here? Could he have KK or QQ and be scared that I have an Ace? I dunno so I call. Can I get away from this hand here?

He checks the turn showing massive weakness. Maybe a halfish pot bet will win me this pot. No, is he hoping to hit a boat on the river or perhaps he already has one. I love checking the turn with a monster, perhaps he does too.

Wow he's checked the river, what to do? I am guessing that he either has AA KK or QQ. I have never really understood what people mean when they say Way Ahead or Way behind but I think that is the situation now so I check as well and LOL when he turns over his AA.

[totalise]

Ok I was hoping to get some comments on how I played before the river on these hands, here is what I was thinking at the time please feel free to tear me a new ass...

Stacks are deep, this is why I have started playing these tourneys and some cash as well cos it is a completely different game to what I'm used to being the SNG donk that I am. For example AA is the easiest hand to play in a SNG but can be very tricky when everyone has 100+ BBs.

Hand 1 I call a raise with TT, I am trying to flop a set and stack him off, he hasn't got a huge stack but on the other hand I can afford to lose a few chips here no problem. We get reraised and the original raiser calls so I have 1000000000000/1 odds and it would be lovely to stack mamalove off so I call.

If anyone bets the flop I'm outta here but nobody does and I hit my set. Woo Hoo but what if someone has AK? I'm only feeling good about this hand if I river a Full House and for a little bet and a small reraise I'm calling. I don't think I can get away from this hand here?

River and dude suddenly loves his hand enough to go all in. Hmmmmmm I take about 2 seconds to fold. A set is great but not on this board with 2 opponents acting very strong. Dude has QQ for a bigger set but is called by mamalove with his AK.

Hand 2 same situation preflop with shallow stacks I drop AT like a hot potato but hey I gotta lotta chips lets see a flop and see if we can flop 2 pair or better. Again we get reraised but this time I'm getting 20000000000000000000/1 so I call like the calling station that I am.

A high flop I'm outta here with any bet but wait a minute he only bets 2000. WTF is going on here? Could he have KK or QQ and be scared that I have an Ace? I dunno so I call. Can I get away from this hand here?

He checks the turn showing massive weakness. Maybe a halfish pot bet will win me this pot. No, is he hoping to hit a boat on the river or perhaps he already has one. I love checking the turn with a monster, perhaps he does too.

Wow he's checked the river, what to do? I am guessing that he either has AA KK or QQ. I have never really understood what people mean when they say Way Ahead or Way behind but I think that is the situation now so I check as well and LOL when he turns over his AA.

I think your line on both the hands (and the thinking) postflop  is pretty much perfect.Preflop with deepstacks you aren't really looking to get involved with A10 (even if it is sooted), it flops pretty bad in general, and its hard to win big pots with it. With hands like A4 at least you have wheel potential. I think you prolly should have folded it before the first raise. Apart from that though, both hands were (imo) very well played

EDIT: to add: there are a lot of hands with stacks this deep you can call with, small/mid pp's and hands that can crack big hands (your typical potential hands s/c etc).. I just firmly believe that A/mid just exposes you to massive reverse implied odds, and when you are calling people's raises, you want to be doing it with the view that if you get a nice flop you can bust someone, not get into situations where if you flop nice, the other person can bust you (which happens a lot with A/rag)

[byronkincaid]

totalise, you're obviously one of the best posters on the Hand Analysis forum. Thanks for your comments. You mention getting to a cheap showdown, I have only recently become aware of this concept in the ground breaking (to me at least) "Going Deeper" MLG thread on 2+2. Did you get the idea from there as well or is this stuff that you already knew about? If you already knew about it did you think of it yourself or has it been discussed before somewhere?

Sorry to ask so many questions... no need to answer if you don't want to.

[totalise]

totalise, you're obviously one of the best posters on the Hand Analysis forum. Thanks for your comments. You mention getting to a cheap showdown, I have only recently become aware of this concept in the ground breaking (to me at least) "Going Deeper" MLG thread on 2+2. Did you get the idea from there as well or is this stuff that you already knew about? If you already knew about it did you think of it yourself or has it been discussed before somewhere?

Sorry to ask so many questions... no need to answer if you don't want to.

Its something that was born out of a large amount of cash game experience... when you are this deep (stackwise) in tournies, for the main its going to play like cash.. and so the general principles are the same. I have a theory that poker should be played in a manner that makes your decisions easy (in relative terms) I call it the "headache free poker" theory.. with the general premise being that if you are constantly in situations that confuse you, it lets you make mistakes, and profit from poker comes when people make mistakes. It sometimes sacrifices small edges, but at the same time it doesnt let you get into a situation where the ensuing mistake costs you a lot more. Of course there will still be times where you are stymied as what to do, but the more you reduce those situations (like in hand 2), the easier it becomes.

In typical internet tournies though, you shouldn't be thinking along these lines too often though, because your edge isn't anywhere near as great against the bad players online, so its more important to push the thin edges, as you cant be confident of getting bigger edges later.

[byronkincaid]

Yes, it seems like the best way to become a great tourney player is to play cash games.

Thank you