The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

Meanwhile Grieve gives our prime minister done advice

[nirvana]

Much as I'm against a second ref in principle - I'm really concerned that a GE at this time will reinforce even more strongly the divisions that exist in the country over something that was a non-issue for most voters 4 or 5 years ago.

Making a GE about a single issue may suit both major parties at the moment in their scramble to Govern but it seems a really bad idea. The electorate are not going to be presented with a serious choice around a raft of issues, instead, parties (particularly on the remain side but perhaps on the Brexit side too) will seek to gerrymander the result through various pacts - principle and conviction seems to have gone so far out the window that it's hard to imagine it climbing back in.

I can't imagine any GE outcome that would ensure a sensible Brexit approach across parliament. I have complete disdain for all MPs on the extreme remain side, Labour have been a huge disappointment to me since the 2017 election. The Tory approach of excluding the rest of parliament for a couple of years of the process to pander to their nutter wing has been a huge disappointment too. I don't think I want to vote for any of them in a GE, particularly if my choices have been manipulated in advance.

Reluctantly (for the nth time since this process began) I'm starting to think that a ref is the best way forward even if we've been manipulated into this view by the political classes.

I think all the value will be with the party who campaigns hard for domestic issues

The big advantage for Boris and defining his Brexit position so definitively at the start is he can leave Brexit behind on the campaign trail

The opposition will still be in Brexit fever mode and Boris is dishonest and shouts at his mrs

I think your right, i can't see how the crying, whining and catastrophising over Brexit plays well in a GE. The level of attacks on BJ at a pure personal level - exemplified by nonentities like Blackford, Moran and many others is unlikely to be a winning strategy

Also, people cried here about the use of the word collaborators but plenty of evidence that the remainers and rebels bringing the Benn bill forward were in constant contact with the EU to ensure they would accept an extension request. I know how the average Brit would see this - not the professional protestors wrapped in their EU flags (zero resonance for the bulk of Britain) - but the average Brit.  I do think they are playing directly into a much more popular/populist message from the Tories

[TightEnd]

Much as I'm against a second ref in principle - I'm really concerned that a GE at this time will reinforce even more strongly the divisions that exist in the country over something that was a non-issue for most voters 4 or 5 years ago.

Making a GE about a single issue may suit both major parties at the moment in their scramble to Govern but it seems a really bad idea. The electorate are not going to be presented with a serious choice around a raft of issues, instead, parties (particularly on the remain side but perhaps on the Brexit side too) will seek to gerrymander the result through various pacts - principle and conviction seems to have gone so far out the window that it's hard to imagine it climbing back in.

I can't imagine any GE outcome that would ensure a sensible Brexit approach across parliament. I have complete disdain for all MPs on the extreme remain side, Labour have been a huge disappointment to me since the 2017 election. The Tory approach of excluding the rest of parliament for a couple of years of the process to pander to their nutter wing has been a huge disappointment too. I don't think I want to vote for any of them in a GE, particularly if my choices have been manipulated in advance.

Reluctantly (for the nth time since this process began) I'm starting to think that a ref is the best way forward even if we've been manipulated into this view by the political classes.

I think all the value will be with the party who campaigns hard for domestic issues

That's Corbyn (and I am not a fan) anti corporate, NHS, anti austerity, renationalisation particularly of rail all poll very well

The man is the problem, not the unpopularity of his policies

[nirvana]

To do a deal now, I drop the red lines now that even with the DUP I am 40 seats away from a parliamentary majority, go for the softest Brexit possible (SM/CU) confident that it would pass through parliament comfortably

Genuinely lost track of this - would the EU grant this without freedom of movement, ECJ authority (or are these the red lines we should drop ?)

Seems a lot of fuss for nothing achieved - perhaps that's appropriate

[RED-DOG]

Johnson would resign rather than sign the letter asking for a Brexit extension says Forsyth

https://t.co/B6kq9bpNsv

Bugger!

I thought he would rather die in a ditch.

[nirvana]

Small example of why the discourse is so fked. Even Marr today puts to Javid that 'even his Brother doesn't trust him'.

Specifically, this isn't a question of trust (going to good faith and integrity) it's a question of fundamental disagreement so more correctly he should say 'even his Brother fundamentally disagrees with his approach' but that's not a headline or surprise. So frustrating

[TightEnd]

To do a deal now, I drop the red lines now that even with the DUP I am 40 seats away from a parliamentary majority, go for the softest Brexit possible (SM/CU) confident that it would pass through parliament comfortably

Genuinely lost track of this - would the EU grant this without freedom of movement, ECJ authority (or are these the red lines we should drop ?)

Seems a lot of fuss for nothing achieved - perhaps that's appropriate

Those are red lines we would drop. Essentially the softest possible Brexit is the only thing that gets through this commons. To get a deal by 31 Oct, which was the question posed to me, this is what I would do.

[nirvana]

To do a deal now, I drop the red lines now that even with the DUP I am 40 seats away from a parliamentary majority, go for the softest Brexit possible (SM/CU) confident that it would pass through parliament comfortably

Genuinely lost track of this - would the EU grant this without freedom of movement, ECJ authority (or are these the red lines we should drop ?)

Seems a lot of fuss for nothing achieved - perhaps that's appropriate

Those are red lines we would drop. Essentially the softest possible Brexit is the only thing that gets through this commons. To get a deal by 31 Oct, which was the question posed to me, this is what I would do.

Agree it's probably the only thing that would get through before end Oct, faint chance I suppose that enough Labour MPs might break ranks and vote for something pretty close to May's deal

[MANTIS01]

Much as I'm against a second ref in principle - I'm really concerned that a GE at this time will reinforce even more strongly the divisions that exist in the country over something that was a non-issue for most voters 4 or 5 years ago.

Making a GE about a single issue may suit both major parties at the moment in their scramble to Govern but it seems a really bad idea. The electorate are not going to be presented with a serious choice around a raft of issues, instead, parties (particularly on the remain side but perhaps on the Brexit side too) will seek to gerrymander the result through various pacts - principle and conviction seems to have gone so far out the window that it's hard to imagine it climbing back in.

I can't imagine any GE outcome that would ensure a sensible Brexit approach across parliament. I have complete disdain for all MPs on the extreme remain side, Labour have been a huge disappointment to me since the 2017 election. The Tory approach of excluding the rest of parliament for a couple of years of the process to pander to their nutter wing has been a huge disappointment too. I don't think I want to vote for any of them in a GE, particularly if my choices have been manipulated in advance.

Reluctantly (for the nth time since this process began) I'm starting to think that a ref is the best way forward even if we've been manipulated into this view by the political classes.

I think all the value will be with the party who campaigns hard for domestic issues

That's Corbyn (and I am not a fan) anti corporate, NHS, anti austerity, renationalisation particularly of rail all poll very well

The man is the problem, not the unpopularity of his policies

Disagree. I think Brits are in the mood to roll up sleeves and get shit done. Corbs calling for strikes and protests in Brexit perhaps general strike, nationalisation, high tax, Jewish racialism, comrade leftie, utter vagabond, avoid election, flip flop Brexit position, powder blue jacket. The man hasn’t got a prayer. The leader defines the party and they should be sailing ahead in the polls.

Anyhow the ‘end of austerity’ strat and extra spending means BoJo has beat him to it. If Boris can get himself in cuffs fighting to deliver Brexit for the people it will be gold.

[typhoon13]

Much as I'm against a second ref in principle - I'm really concerned that a GE at this time will reinforce even more strongly the divisions that exist in the country over something that was a non-issue for most voters 4 or 5 years ago.

Making a GE about a single issue may suit both major parties at the moment in their scramble to Govern but it seems a really bad idea. The electorate are not going to be presented with a serious choice around a raft of issues, instead, parties (particularly on the remain side but perhaps on the Brexit side too) will seek to gerrymander the result through various pacts - principle and conviction seems to have gone so far out the window that it's hard to imagine it climbing back in.

I can't imagine any GE outcome that would ensure a sensible Brexit approach across parliament. I have complete disdain for all MPs on the extreme remain side, Labour have been a huge disappointment to me since the 2017 election. The Tory approach of excluding the rest of parliament for a couple of years of the process to pander to their nutter wing has been a huge disappointment too. I don't think I want to vote for any of them in a GE, particularly if my choices have been manipulated in advance.

Reluctantly (for the nth time since this process began) I'm starting to think that a ref is the best way forward even if we've been manipulated into this view by the political classes.

I think all the value will be with the party who campaigns hard for domestic issues

That's Corbyn (and I am not a fan) anti corporate, NHS, anti austerity, renationalisation particularly of rail all poll very well

The man is the problem, not the unpopularity of his policies

Disagree. I think Brits are in the mood to roll up sleeves and get shit done. Corbs calling for strikes and protests in Brexit perhaps general strike, nationalisation, high tax, Jewish racialism, comrade leftie, utter vagabond, avoid election, flip flop Brexit position, powder blue jacket. The man hasn’t got a prayer. The leader defines the party and they should be sailing ahead in the polls.

Anyhow the ‘end of austerity’ strat and extra spending means BoJo has beat him to it. If Boris can get himself in cuffs fighting to deliver Brexit for the people it will be gold.

Agree

People I talk to are sick of the whole thing and admire Boris for at least trying to get things done, this as won him support amongst the public

Remain voters I know are now for leaving due to the arrogance of Brussels and the stubbornness of the remain politicians

[aaron1867]

What options are realistically on the table for No.10 & the opposition?

[RED-DOG]

What options are realistically on the table for No.10 & the opposition?

STOOOOOOOOPPP  BREXXXIITTTT!

[BigAdz]

Much as I'm against a second ref in principle - I'm really concerned that a GE at this time will reinforce even more strongly the divisions that exist in the country over something that was a non-issue for most voters 4 or 5 years ago.

Making a GE about a single issue may suit both major parties at the moment in their scramble to Govern but it seems a really bad idea. The electorate are not going to be presented with a serious choice around a raft of issues, instead, parties (particularly on the remain side but perhaps on the Brexit side too) will seek to gerrymander the result through various pacts - principle and conviction seems to have gone so far out the window that it's hard to imagine it climbing back in.

I can't imagine any GE outcome that would ensure a sensible Brexit approach across parliament. I have complete disdain for all MPs on the extreme remain side, Labour have been a huge disappointment to me since the 2017 election. The Tory approach of excluding the rest of parliament for a couple of years of the process to pander to their nutter wing has been a huge disappointment too. I don't think I want to vote for any of them in a GE, particularly if my choices have been manipulated in advance.

Reluctantly (for the nth time since this process began) I'm starting to think that a ref is the best way forward even if we've been manipulated into this view by the political classes.

I think all the value will be with the party who campaigns hard for domestic issues

That's Corbyn (and I am not a fan) anti corporate, NHS, anti austerity, renationalisation particularly of rail all poll very well

The man is the problem, not the unpopularity of his policies

Disagree. I think Brits are in the mood to roll up sleeves and get shit done. Corbs calling for strikes and protests in Brexit perhaps general strike, nationalisation, high tax, Jewish racialism, comrade leftie, utter vagabond, avoid election, flip flop Brexit position, powder blue jacket. The man hasn’t got a prayer. The leader defines the party and they should be sailing ahead in the polls.

Anyhow the ‘end of austerity’ strat and extra spending means BoJo has beat him to it. If Boris can get himself in cuffs fighting to deliver Brexit for the people it will be gold.

Agree

People I talk to are sick of the whole thing and admire Boris for at least trying to get things done, this as won him support amongst the public

Remain voters I know are now for leaving due to the arrogance of Brussels and the stubbornness of the remain politicians

Exactly this. it is only the complete stubbornness of a noisy minority that want their own way, that are really stopping this from happening.

I was feeling as I started to read the last two pages, fuck it. Have a second ref, vote it down and watch what happens over the next couple of years. However the last couple of posts have re-energised me and I'm back on board the No, get out and see it through bandwagon.

[typhoon13]

Much as I'm against a second ref in principle - I'm really concerned that a GE at this time will reinforce even more strongly the divisions that exist in the country over something that was a non-issue for most voters 4 or 5 years ago.

Making a GE about a single issue may suit both major parties at the moment in their scramble to Govern but it seems a really bad idea. The electorate are not going to be presented with a serious choice around a raft of issues, instead, parties (particularly on the remain side but perhaps on the Brexit side too) will seek to gerrymander the result through various pacts - principle and conviction seems to have gone so far out the window that it's hard to imagine it climbing back in.

I can't imagine any GE outcome that would ensure a sensible Brexit approach across parliament. I have complete disdain for all MPs on the extreme remain side, Labour have been a huge disappointment to me since the 2017 election. The Tory approach of excluding the rest of parliament for a couple of years of the process to pander to their nutter wing has been a huge disappointment too. I don't think I want to vote for any of them in a GE, particularly if my choices have been manipulated in advance.

Reluctantly (for the nth time since this process began) I'm starting to think that a ref is the best way forward even if we've been manipulated into this view by the political classes.

I think all the value will be with the party who campaigns hard for domestic issues

That's Corbyn (and I am not a fan) anti corporate, NHS, anti austerity, renationalisation particularly of rail all poll very well

The man is the problem, not the unpopularity of his policies

Disagree. I think Brits are in the mood to roll up sleeves and get shit done. Corbs calling for strikes and protests in Brexit perhaps general strike, nationalisation, high tax, Jewish racialism, comrade leftie, utter vagabond, avoid election, flip flop Brexit position, powder blue jacket. The man hasn’t got a prayer. The leader defines the party and they should be sailing ahead in the polls.

Anyhow the ‘end of austerity’ strat and extra spending means BoJo has beat him to it. If Boris can get himself in cuffs fighting to deliver Brexit for the people it will be gold.

Agree

People I talk to are sick of the whole thing and admire Boris for at least trying to get things done, this as won him support amongst the public

Remain voters I know are now for leaving due to the arrogance of Brussels and the stubbornness of the remain politicians

Exactly this. it is only the complete stubbornness of a noisy minority that want their own way, that are really stopping this from happening.

I was feeling as I started to read the last two pages, fuck it. Have a second ref, vote it down and watch what happens over the next couple of years. However the last couple of posts have re-energised me and I'm back on board the No, get out and see it through bandwagon.

FFS come on Adz don’t let the three staunch remainers on here brainwash you and grind you down

[BigAdz]

It's ok. It was a brief moment of weakness.

I'm back.