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Title: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 04, 2008, 07:12:53 PM OK. Before I get to the point of this post, let me set my stall out.
In my humble opinion, dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) is to poker players what sliced bread is to mothers. i.e. the best thing that has happened for a very long time. It is a dream that, almost through sheer will power, became a reality. It continues to break new ground on a weekly basis, and it has already become a legend in it's own short lifetime. It is, and will continue to be. the benchmark against which all other card rooms are judged. Now, indulge me if you will for a just few moments longer while I speak about Simon (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=400) Trumper (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=400). Never was someone more suited to a job than he to this one. He gives it 100% all of the time. Nothing in that card room escapes his attention. The tournament is sold out, there are 40 reserves clamouring for a seat, 2 sit and go's and 6 cash games running, with 3 more waiting to start, Simon still notices an empty plate or a tea cup, and he clears it away. He has constantly tweaked the structures of the weekly competitions so that we get as much play as possible in the time available. Simon is a poker player, he's on our side. So, I'm pro dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload), right? Now I'll get down to the nitty gritty. I spoke to Simon last night about the structure for Saturday's £500 two day event. I thought it was a bit quick. To cut a long story short, I thought that it was possible to do better than a 40 minute clock and 7k starting chips, and as I understood it, Simon agreed. But, (and I'm sure that he will correct me if I'm wrong) He seemed to be of the opinion that if he gave us more chips and a longer clock, it would leave him with nothing extra to offer for festival events. I have to say that this is an argument that I have heard before, from both cardroom managers and players alike) But I disagree, I think you should give the players the best structure possible regardless. To sum up, I think Saturday's £500 could have a longer clock and more chips, and I don't think a £1500 event would be devalued because a £500 event had the same structure. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: kinboshi on January 04, 2008, 07:21:32 PM To sum up, I think Saturday's £500 could have a longer clock and more chips, and I don't think a £1500 event would be devalued because a £500 event had the same structure. It wouldn't be. People want to play events with decent structures at all levels of buy-in. The £1,500 event would remain the 'blue riband' event - purely because of the buy-in. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Colchester Kev on January 04, 2008, 07:29:00 PM Tom ... a question.
If the 500 event sells out with the advertised structure then it is a success, if by changing the structure to one that you would prefer means it still sells out fine ... but why change the structure for a comp that will inevitably sell out ... it makes sense to have a hook for a festival event IMO , and by saving the structure for a flag ship event gives it maketability (is that a word by the way ?) Its like planning an online comp, running a tipping league, running a fantasy football league etc etc etc ... there will always be people who think their way is better ... but these people are never the ones to actually get off their arses and do the organising , they just want to change the original plans of someone elses efforts. personally ... and this is only MY personal opinion, I get knobbed off with all the structure moaning and groaning, if people want an event that is structured the way they want , then why dont they run one themselves.. if its a structure that every player in the world will toss themselves off over, then you will be on to a winner. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: kinboshi on January 04, 2008, 07:40:24 PM Marketablity might be a word...
Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Colchester Kev on January 04, 2008, 07:42:22 PM Marketablity might be a word... marketablity, marketability, maketability ... its all the bleeding same ;) Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Colchester Kev on January 04, 2008, 07:48:25 PM Abraham Lincoln once said that "you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time"…
he was quite a clever bloke wasnt he. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: madasahatstand on January 04, 2008, 07:49:29 PM Abraham Lincoln once said that "you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time"… he was quite a clever bloke wasnt he. is that what he said? lol Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Colchester Kev on January 04, 2008, 07:52:59 PM Abraham Lincoln once said that "you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time"… he was quite a clever bloke wasnt he. is that what he said? lol you know, i always thought it was Lincoln that said that, but your post made me google it and it seems it wasnt Lincoln, it was a poet called John Lydgate here is the full quote both from Lincoln and John Lydgate You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time. to Lincoln. Actually, that particular quote belongs to the poet John Lydgate. But he wasn't too far off, because Lincoln did say: You can fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: madasahatstand on January 04, 2008, 07:55:23 PM Abraham Lincoln once said that "you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time"… he was quite a clever bloke wasnt he. is that what he said? lol you know, i always thought it was Lincoln that said that, but your post made me google it and it seems it wasnt Lincoln, it was a poet called John Lydgate here is the full quote both from Lincoln and John Lydgate You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time. to Lincoln. Actually, that particular quote belongs to the poet John Lydgate. But he wasn't too far off, because Lincoln did say: You can fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time. and i thought it was...................... You fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time... and the rest of the time they make fools of themselves. lolol, also found it on google and thought it was funny:) Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 04, 2008, 07:57:03 PM Abraham Lincoln once said that "you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time"… he was quite a clever bloke wasnt he. is that what he said? lol you know, i always thought it was Lincoln that said that, but your post made me google it and it seems it wasnt Lincoln, it was a poet called John Lydgate here is the full quote both from Lincoln and John Lydgate You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time. to Lincoln. Actually, that particular quote belongs to the poet John Lydgate. But he wasn't too far off, because Lincoln did say: You can fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time. Perhaps if he had been a little more eloquent, he would have said if its a structure that every player in the world will toss themselves off over, then you will be on to a winner. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Colchester Kev on January 04, 2008, 08:00:06 PM Abraham Lincoln once said that "you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time"… he was quite a clever bloke wasnt he. is that what he said? lol you know, i always thought it was Lincoln that said that, but your post made me google it and it seems it wasnt Lincoln, it was a poet called John Lydgate here is the full quote both from Lincoln and John Lydgate You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time. to Lincoln. Actually, that particular quote belongs to the poet John Lydgate. But he wasn't too far off, because Lincoln did say: You can fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time. Perhaps if he had been a little more eloquent, he would have said if its a structure that every player in the world will toss themselves off over, then you will be on to a winner. I was quite proud of that particular quote ... and i didnt have to spell check it either :) Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: 77dave on January 04, 2008, 08:02:57 PM I agree Tom that we put up our money so we should get a decent structure as a reward for our outlay
Dont you think though that too many comps these days try to overcompensate and give to many chips with too many levels and too long a clock comps were originally designed to get people to turn up, get knocked out and let the venue generate money from the cash games. None of us want crapshoots but nutfests isnt the way to go either surely too much of something can be as bad as too little Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 04, 2008, 08:06:03 PM Tom ... a question. If the 500 event sells out with the advertised structure then it is a success, if by changing the structure to one that you would prefer means it still sells out fine ... but why change the structure for a comp that will inevitably sell out ... it makes sense to have a hook for a festival event IMO , and by saving the structure for a flag ship event gives it maketability (is that a word by the way ?) Its like planning an online comp, running a tipping league, running a fantasy football league etc etc etc ... there will always be people who think their way is better ... but these people are never the ones to actually get off their arses and do the organising , they just want to change the original plans of someone elses efforts. personally ... and this is only MY personal opinion, I get knobbed off with all the structure moaning and groaning, if people want an event that is structured the way they want , then why dont they run one themselves.. if its a structure that every player in the world will toss themselves off over, then you will be on to a winner. Kev... I know of loads of events with truly horrible structures that sell out, but as I see it, that isn't what dtd is about. it's about providing the best possible value for the players. I don't really understand the "Why don't they organise one themselves" question. Rob Young spent millions so that he could do it his way, I don't have that option. Where/how would I possibly organise it myself? You say that I just want to change the original plans of someone elses efforts. Why would I want to do that if I thought it was a great structure. I don't see it as moaning and groaning, I see it as my personal opinion, just like you see yours You seem to assume that I'm attacking dtd, I'm not. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 04, 2008, 08:07:59 PM Dont you think though that too many comps these days try to overcompensate and give to many chips with too many levels and too long a clock Which ones are they Jim? Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: 77dave on January 04, 2008, 08:13:34 PM I played the £500 last week at s'end
i believe it was 10k in chips with levels 25/50 50/100 75/150 100/200 150/300 200/400 as i say im not looking for crap shoots but i also want to be able to put people under pressure for there chips i think luton has gone too far with there comps the final started at 4.50am on boxing day (im at the point where i have stopped playing them as too many people are passing there way to the final ) This £500 comp at DTD is a special one off event so for me i think it should have as good a strucutre as any because it is a headlining event Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Colchester Kev on January 04, 2008, 08:13:50 PM No it never crossed my mind that you were attacking DTD, and even if i did, its not my job to defend them anyway... im sure they can do that themselves.
I suppose what i mean in laymans terms is this ... if you like the structure, play the event. if you dont like the structure dont play the event. we live in a country where you can get a game of poker either live or online almost anytime of the day or night, 365 days a year .... play what suits you and ignore what doesnt. BUT the biggest mistake is to assume that every poker player thinks the same as you, for everyone who wants longer levels and every level jump included, there is another who detests that particular structure .. surely we should all just go with what suits us personally and vote with our feet ?? Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: ifm on January 04, 2008, 08:19:28 PM I think the members of DTD should be polled about it, if they think it's good and fair then it should be put to Simon Trumper as an option to consider.
Majority rule. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: tikay on January 04, 2008, 08:24:39 PM I agree Tom that we put up our money so we should get a decent structure as a reward for our outlay Dont you think though that too many comps these days try to overcompensate and give to many chips with too many levels and too long a clock comps were originally designed to get people to turn up, get knocked out and let the venue generate money from the cash games. None of us want crapshoots but nutfests isnt the way to go either surely too much of something can be as bad as too little It's a "balance thing" Jim. I happen to be one of those that continually lobby for better structures, but "better" is subjective. And DTD have shown that they listen to what poker players want, & try to oblige. They have already dmonstrated that, by agreeeing to add Super Stud & such like to Dealers Choice - not originally intended - but now proven to be hugely popular there, & very rake-generative. I actually think Tom's thread title may have given the wromg impression - he's not "dissing" them at all, he's larging them up in truth. And walking the walk, by spending most nights there, playing Cash, & generating rake to help run the place. As to his suggestion, well, I think - in fact, I KNOW - that DTD monitor blonde daily, & closely, to seek feedback, & I think Simon Trumper will answer eloquently & patiently as to why he prefers "as is", & will remain, as he was when we chatted about this very thing last night, open to suggestions as to what suits most best. It's what a Poker Forum does best, chews the cud, acts as a sounding board for ideas - and as long as it's civil, that's fine & dandy. Personally, I've always been puzzled by the notion that if the Big Boys in the Main Event get, say, 10k in chips, it would devalue that Event if the lower buy-in Tourneys were given an equally attractive structure. APAT gave that structure at the lower buy-in level, & we can't find Venues big enough for them, that's how popular they are, but it''s not, in my opinion, devalued "bigger" Events that have the same structure. I must reiterate Red's summing up of Mother Hen. To watch him running that Cardroom is a thing of beauty - it's as if he were born to do it, his whole approach is exemplary, but particularly his people skills. Awesome. We had a most fascinating chat about drain-cleaning last night - he knows his stuff does him. He shall be Lord Hen soon. But back to the £500. Yes, I'd prefer it a tad slower, & yes, I accept Simon's reasons why he wants to start it off as is. With our opinions, & their ears, the best balanced solution will emerge in time, & soon enough. THATS the great thing about DTD - they listen. And the Egg Benedict is a bit OK, too. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: boldie on January 04, 2008, 08:27:19 PM I played the £500 last week at s'end i believe it was 10k in chips with levels 25/50 50/100 75/150 100/200 150/300 200/400 as i say im not looking for crap shoots but i also want to be able to put people under pressure for there chips i think luton has gone too far with there comps the final started at 4.50am on boxing day (im at the point where i have stopped playing them as too many people are passing there way to the final ) This £500 comp at dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) is a special one off event so for me i think it should have as good a strucutre as any because it is a headlining event I'm playing the GSNPC in march (little brag) and that has the above + a 150 +3-- witha 25 ante level added to the above...I can't wait! It's beautifull..gorgeous and I'm sure (if I can actually keep my focus for the first and second day and not mess up completely because I get bored or tired) that it will be a pleasure. ..Wouldn't want to play one every week though Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 04, 2008, 08:30:00 PM No it never crossed my mind that you were attacking dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload), and even if i did, its not my job to defend them anyway... im sure they can do that themselves. I suppose what i mean in laymans terms is this ... if you like the structure, play the event. if you dont like the structure dont play the event. we live in a country where you can get a game of poker either live or online almost anytime of the day or night, 365 days a year .... play what suits you and ignore what doesnt. BUT the biggest mistake is to assume that every poker player thinks the same as you, for everyone who wants longer levels and every level jump included, there is another who detests that particular structure .. surely we should all just go with what suits us personally and vote with our feet ?? Well for a start, that's nothing nothing like what you said in your first post, which implies that I just want to undermine someones efforts for the sake of it. I did NOT assume every player wants the same thing, I quote I have to say that this is an argument that I have heard before, from both cardroom managers and PLAYERS alike) But I disagree, I think you should give the players the best structure possible regardless. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: celtic on January 04, 2008, 08:33:10 PM I played the £500 last week at s'end i believe it was 10k in chips with levels 25/50 50/100 75/150 100/200 150/300 200/400 as i say im not looking for crap shoots but i also want to be able to put people under pressure for there chips i think luton has gone too far with there comps the final started at 4.50am on boxing day (im at the point where i have stopped playing them as too many people are passing there way to the final ) This £500 comp at dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) is a special one off event so for me i think it should have as good a strucutre as any because it is a headlining event Bit harsh & it started at 1am. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: tikay on January 04, 2008, 08:33:39 PM I think the members of dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) should be polled about it, if they think it's good and fair then it should be put to Simon (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=400) Trumper (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=400) as an option to consider. Majority rule. Well, the truth is, it's Rob Yong's rule - it's his money, & he can do what he wants. The one thing they will NOT do, ever - & I know, because I've chatted to Rob, & Nick, & Simon about this, is anything which devalues the DTD Brand. It's a Premium Brand - like Rolex, like Ferrari, like Gucci, like Chanel, and as such, they need, & will, maintain the highest standards. They don't need to go downmarket, or offer "incentives", that devalue the Brand. And the DTD experience. Im quite sure they'll do what's best, just give them time to settle, & they'll tweak things as they go. But they need feedback, & that's what this thread is doing. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: ifm on January 04, 2008, 08:38:25 PM I think the members of dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) should be polled about it, if they think it's good and fair then it should be put to Simon (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=400) Trumper (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=400) as an option to consider. Majority rule. Well, the truth is, it's Rob (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=383) Yong (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=383)'s rule - it's his money, & he can do what he wants. The one thing they will NOT do, ever - & I know, because I've chatted to Rob, & Nick, & Simon about this, is anything which devalues the dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) Brand. It's a Premium Brand - like Rolex, like Ferrari, like Gucci, like Chanel, and as such, they need, & will, maintain the highest standards. They don't need to go downmarket, or offer "incentives", that devalue the Brand. And the dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) experience. Im quite sure they'll do what's best, just give them time to settle, & they'll tweak things as they go. But they need feedback, & that's what this thread is doing. HUH ??? I think you may have contradicted yourself a few times. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: M3boy on January 04, 2008, 08:45:18 PM Why not structure a comp differently?
Have say 7500 starting chips and make the levels longer, the deeper into the tournament you get. Maybe include some other levels later on (say 1200 2400 for example) This then removes the stagnent first few levels where you cannot really pressure people in a 10,000 chip comp when the blinds are so small. BUT would allow for play at the business end? I have no idea if this would work but its just an idea? Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 04, 2008, 08:50:18 PM I played the £500 last week at s'end i believe it was 10k in chips with levels 25/50 50/100 75/150 100/200 150/300 200/400 as i say im not looking for crap shoots but i also want to be able to put people under pressure for there chips i think luton has gone too far with there comps the final started at 4.50am on boxing day (im at the point where i have stopped playing them as too many people are passing there way to the final ) This £500 comp at dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) is a special one off event so for me i think it should have as good a strucutre as any because it is a headlining event So it's ok to pass your way to the final in an EPT or some other headlining event Jim? ;) Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: George2Loose on January 04, 2008, 10:15:13 PM APAT has a better structure. Clock should be an hour IMHO :)
Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Rookie (Rodney) on January 04, 2008, 10:21:18 PM Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: DTD-ACES on January 05, 2008, 09:33:21 AM Hi Guys
As TK said i read all DTD threads and his diary to get feedback/ideas to improve the service/experience of playing at Dusk Till Dawn. I spoke to Tom and told him the current structure for the monthly £500 was set at 40 minutes and 7500 chips and uses our normal weekly tournament structure with a couple of changes, i have added a 150 300 25 level and the 200 400 has a 50 ante instead of 25, i also said if i gave a longer clock and full festival structure ( i will probably put back one or two levels i removed as originally it was way too slow for one day events the first week ending in chip counts every night at 6am ! ) what would i have to improve the festival events. Every Thursday our £50 event has been sold out, originally capped at 108 and getting 119 to 137 it is now capped at 135 pre seat draw and 9 alternates . 144 is the natural cap using our structure with 30 minute levels, Thursdays event was split on a 3 way chip count at 4.20am but could have played out over the next 3 levels. Tonight there were 89 players for the £100 which has 5000 starting chips instead of 4000 , this makes a big difference to early play as with 445,000 chips compared to Thursdays 576,000 it finished at 5.10am with no deals, this means i may have to drop the chips if the fields keep increasing but i know i could get up to 144 with 4000 so will try 4500 first but not until i see how the next one with 5000 chips does. As i have no idea how many players will turn up for our £500 i want to give a decent structure with a longer clock and more chips than our weekly events then monitor the result and feedback as this will help me determine the best structure/clock/chips for our first festival . I agree with Tom and TK that the Dusk Till Dawn experience should not be diluted and wherever i can i will improve it. Therefore once i see how this weekend goes next month i will consider a one hour clock and 7500 or 45 minutes with 10,000 starting chips. Playing here is so unique compared to any other venue in the UK there is no reason why our monthly event can't be a sample of what you can expect at DTD festivals. I respect Toms decision to skip this months event but i hope he will come and play in the side games. As kev says it's not possible to please everyone but for those interested here are the first 10 levels tonight , 7500 chips and a 40 minute clock. 25 50 50 100 75 150 100 200 150 300 150 300 25 200 400 50 300 600 50 400 800 100 600 1200 100 I certainly dont think Tom is " dissing " DTD as i know he loves playing here as does TK and without constructive criticism i would be unable to perfect the Dusk Till Dawn experience so thanks to all of you that are willing to share your opinions. I am trying to achieve our goal of making Dusk Till Dawn the premier venue in Europe, i have a fantastic team providing the best poker experience in an amazing venue, there is much more to come as we work towards opening 7 days a week and hosting our first festival and i welcome any suggestions both here or in person at the club. Cheers ACES Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Mango99 on January 05, 2008, 10:26:03 AM There's far too many deep stack structures imo. I'd much rather play a quicker structured game than sit around for 3 days then bubble. The dtd £500 looks like a good compromise, and if I didn't live so far away and wasn't so perpetually busy, it's one I'd definitely play. Hope to make it up in the next few months. Keep up the good work :)
Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 05, 2008, 10:35:25 AM Thank you Simon.
Of course I wasn't really dissing dtd, you know how much I love playing there. I posted my opinion because I knew that you would take it in the spirit it was intended. Contrary to to Kev's (imho) rather insulting post, I'm not "Moaning and Groaning" and I don't "just want to change the original plans of someone else's efforts." Kev also seems to suggests (in laymans terms) I hasten to add. (although "Knobbed off" and "Tossing themselves off" don't apparently qualify as laymens terms) That rather than voice opinions, we should just "Vote with our feet". Well we could do that, but then poker forums would be pretty redundant. BTW Simon, I haven't said that I won't play this weekend, (It's still a pretty good structure) but if I don't, I will still be coming down for a little cash action. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Dingdell on January 05, 2008, 10:36:28 AM Thank you Simon. Of course I wasn't really dissing dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload), you know how much I love playing there. I posted my opinion because I knew that you would take it in the spirit it was intended. Contrary to to Kev's (imho) rather insulting post, I'm not "Moaning and Groaning" and I don't "just want to change the original plans of someone else's efforts." Kev also seems to suggests (in laymans terms) I hasten to add. (although "Knobbed off" and "Tossing themselves off" don't apparently qualify as laymens terms) That rather than voice opinions, we should just "Vote with our feet". Well we could do that, but then poker forums would be pretty redundant. BTW Simon, I haven't said that I won't play this weekend, (It's still a pretty good structure) but if I don't, I will still be coming down for a little cash action. You better be - I almost relinquished my updating hat when I heard you may not be there x Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: crapper on January 05, 2008, 01:12:18 PM There's far too many deep stack structures imo. I'd much rather play a quicker structured game than sit around for 3 days then bubble. The dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) £500 looks like a good compromise, and if I didn't live so far away and wasn't so perpetually busy, it's one I'd definitely play. Hope to make it up in the next few months. Keep up the good work :) Matt, isn't it true that you would prefer an all-in or fold tourney structure with 1 minute blind levels ? Just a rumour that I heard m8 ;) See ya in Brighton the week after next ? Ian. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: bigalhx1 on January 05, 2008, 01:28:05 PM why not ask them for the ladbrokes blind structure and 15 min clock tom as you are red hot at that and happy new year
Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Royal Flush on January 05, 2008, 01:52:35 PM I was delighted when i went to the opening £500 event to find it wasn't the same old 10k 1hr structure.
It was a great improvement, a £500 game shouldn't take as long as they do at some places. Well done DTD, give all poker players what they want, not just those who shout the loudest Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 05, 2008, 01:54:51 PM I was delighted when i went to the opening £500 event to find it wasn't the same old 10k 1hr structure. It was a great improvement, a £500 game shouldn't take as long as they do at some places. Well done dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload), give all poker players what they want, not just those who shout the loudest Which events should be 10k and 1 hour James, and why? Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: tikay on January 05, 2008, 03:36:59 PM Hi Guys As TK said i read all dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) threads and his diary to get feedback/ideas to improve the service/experience of playing at dusk till (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) dawn (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload). I spoke to Tom and told him the current structure for the monthly £500 was set at 40 minutes and 7500 chips and uses our normal weekly tournament structure with a couple of changes, i have added a 150 300 25 level and the 200 400 has a 50 ante instead of 25, i also said if i gave a longer clock and full festival structure ( i will probably put back one or two levels i removed as originally it was way too slow for one day events the first week ending in chip counts every night at 6am ! ) what would i have to improve the festival events. Every Thursday our £50 event has been sold out, originally capped at 108 and getting 119 to 137 it is now capped at 135 pre seat draw and 9 alternates . 144 is the natural cap using our structure with 30 minute levels, Thursdays event was split on a 3 way chip count at 4.20am but could have played out over the next 3 levels. Tonight there were 89 players for the £100 which has 5000 starting chips instead of 4000 , this makes a big difference to early play as with 445,000 chips compared to Thursdays 576,000 it finished at 5.10am with no deals, this means i may have to drop the chips if the fields keep increasing but i know i could get up to 144 with 4000 so will try 4500 first but not until i see how the next one with 5000 chips does. As i have no idea how many players will turn up for our £500 i want to give a decent structure with a longer clock and more chips than our weekly events then monitor the result and feedback as this will help me determine the best structure/clock/chips for our first festival . I agree with Tom and TK that the dusk till (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) dawn (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) experience should not be diluted and wherever i can i will improve it. Therefore once i see how this weekend goes next month i will consider a one hour clock and 7500 or 45 minutes with 10,000 starting chips. Playing here is so unique compared to any other venue in the UK there is no reason why our monthly event can't be a sample of what you can expect at dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) festivals. I respect Toms decision to skip this months event but i hope he will come and play in the side games. As kev says it's not possible to please everyone but for those interested here are the first 10 levels tonight , 7500 chips and a 40 minute clock. 25 50 50 100 75 150 100 200 150 300 150 300 25 200 400 50 300 600 50 400 800 100 600 1200 100 I certainly dont think Tom is " dissing " dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) as i know he loves playing here as does TK and without constructive criticism i would be unable to perfect the dusk till (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) dawn (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) experience so thanks to all of you that are willing to share your opinions. I am trying to achieve our goal of making dusk till (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) dawn (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) the premier venue in Europe, i have a fantastic team providing the best poker experience in an amazing venue, there is much more to come as we work towards opening 7 days a week and hosting our first festival and i welcome any suggestions both here or in person at the club. Cheers ACES There speaks a man who understands the mechanics of Tournament structures. I suggested Simon would reply patiently & eloquently. I got that one right! Well done Simon. I am working tonight, so, sadly, can't play the £500, such is life, but I'm driving straight up from London to DTD after the Show, & will see you then, also later on Sunday for the £200. Good Luck tonight! Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Mango99 on January 05, 2008, 06:02:30 PM There's far too many deep stack structures imo. I'd much rather play a quicker structured game than sit around for 3 days then bubble. The dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) £500 looks like a good compromise, and if I didn't live so far away and wasn't so perpetually busy, it's one I'd definitely play. Hope to make it up in the next few months. Keep up the good work :) Matt, isn't it true that you would prefer an all-in or fold tourney structure with 1 minute blind levels ? Just a rumour that I heard m8 ;) See ya in Brighton the week after next ? Ian. Lol, you know me too well :) Not sure if I am doing Brighton.. Would quite like to, but this time of year is very busy for me. I'll play a satellite on BlueSq prob. and if I qualify go for sure. Brighton is fun - after all it's the home of Paul Parker and Flushy. Can't go wrong there for entertainment value. Bournemouth Roll I up landlord! :) Best wishes to you and your family for the new year. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Rookie (Rodney) on January 05, 2008, 06:50:00 PM I was delighted when i went to the opening £500 event to find it wasn't the same old 10k 1hr structure. It was a great improvement, a £500 game shouldn't take as long as they do at some places. Well done dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload), give all poker players what they want, not just those who shout the loudest Agreed Flushy - sadly have had to miss this one but hope to be playing them in the near future. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Royal Flush on January 05, 2008, 11:44:29 PM I was delighted when i went to the opening £500 event to find it wasn't the same old 10k 1hr structure. It was a great improvement, a £500 game shouldn't take as long as they do at some places. Well done dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload), give all poker players what they want, not just those who shout the loudest Which events should be 10k and 1 hour James, and why? Festival main events, because they are festival main events. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 06, 2008, 06:26:15 AM I was delighted when i went to the opening £500 event to find it wasn't the same old 10k 1hr structure. It was a great improvement, a £500 game shouldn't take as long as they do at some places. Well done dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload), give all poker players what they want, not just those who shout the loudest Which events should be 10k and 1 hour James, and why? Festival main events, because they are festival main events. So people who can't afford to play festival main events shouldn't get the chance to play that structure, even though time will allow it? Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: matt674 on January 06, 2008, 09:00:47 AM you could always get a job!!
you can join the APAT then ;) Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: crapper on January 06, 2008, 12:25:27 PM Matt, isn't it true that you would prefer an all-in or fold tourney structure with 1 minute blind levels ? Just a rumour that I heard m8 ;) See ya in Brighton the week after next ? Ian. [/quote] Lol, you know me too well :) Not sure if I am doing Brighton.. Would quite like to, but this time of year is very busy for me. I'll play a satellite on BlueSq prob. and if I qualify go for sure. Brighton is fun - after all it's the home of Paul (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=334) Parker (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=334) and Flushy. Can't go wrong there for entertainment value. Bournemouth Roll I up landlord! :) Best wishes to you and your family for the new year. [/quote] For ''but this time of year is busy for me'', insert : ''but unfortunately, I've done my bollox on the house games again'' .............hehe, only joking m8. You're right , of course, that the only reason any of us go to Brighton is to see Paul and Flushy......any prize money gained is quite immaterial. Best wishes also to you for the New Year Matt.... have a prosperous one! Ian. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Azirapheal on January 06, 2008, 03:14:19 PM hmm, was ni was actually ice seeing you last night red, glad to see you finally made it.
usually with 5k starting chips and a 30 minute clock the tournament runs at the same pace as it did last night, as someone that has had the joy of seeing every comp at dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) play out i was actually very surprised to see players being eliminated at the rate they were, then i noted that players were rarely if ever playing to the blind levels, but were playing to the chip stack sizes (raising 6x BB was standard till the blinds reached 1,200) with the structure as things are i consistently see similar faces on the last two tables, proving that the structure itself is very benevolent towards tournament players - i believe ive only seen players blinded//ante'd out of the competition after a bad beat or cooler that left them very short. so im afraid i must personally disagree with you in terms of the 7k starting chips and the 40 minute clock would be a patient players wet dream, but there is no accounting for an agressive field. hope my ramblings make sense oh and congrats to the 6-way chip count, always nice seeing a definite winner Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: K9sixtwo on January 06, 2008, 03:27:52 PM If i can throw my lot in with Red Dog here.. I agree entirely where he is coming form and Aces knows that Red's comments are constructive criticism intended to make DTD better..
I am a recreational player that sadly works for a living and is of (imho) a slightly above average Player. For me I cant afford to go to a B&M establishment to play on a regular basis as financially i cannot afford to. When i do enter a tourney in a B&M card room it is usually at the lower stake level and as a result i get frustrated by the fact that the structure is rubbish with a short clock that cripples. To me to go somewhere and play for a reasonable amount with an excellent structure, very much like DTD's £50 is heaven. The fact that it is selling out speaks volumes as well. Not all of us have the ability to play in £100 or plus buy in tourneys and i would dream at the chance of playing in the £500 DTD monthly, My best results have been in the fabulous Sporting Emporium in Dublin last year when it was my 40th birthday and came third in there weekly 75Euro scalp and progressing up from $7 to the $700 step in Stars PCA steps late last year, apart from that its grinding it out at the $10 -$20 STT/MTT games.. I look forward to going up to DTD and playing in a game that has plenty of scope to it without breaking my limited bank. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: ifm on January 06, 2008, 04:14:23 PM If i can throw my lot in with Red Dog here.. I agree entirely where he is coming form and Aces knows that Red's comments are constructive criticism intended to make dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) better.. Better for who? This is the crux of the dissension on this thread, who actually wants what is proposed? My argument regarding structures has never wavered, i think the players involved should come to an agreement THEN approach the management with a consensus, what happens then is largely irrelevant as long as democracy is at least part of the process. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 06, 2008, 04:28:07 PM I don't think I'm explaining myself very well here, perhaps I'm shouting too loud, or not making enough references sexual behaiviour and bodily functions.
I suppose what I'm really trying to say is that I don't see why a 45min/1hour clock and 10k chips is a good structure for a 2 day £1000+ main event, but not for a £300/£500 two day event. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: ripple11 on January 06, 2008, 04:30:23 PM I don't think I'm explaining myself very well here, perhaps I'm souting too loud, or not making enough references sexual behaiviour and bodily functions. I suppose what I'm really trying to say is that I don't see why a 45min/1hour clock and 10k chips is a good structure for a 2 day £1000+ main event, but not for a £300/£500 two day event. Especially if APAT can do it for 75 quid !! ;) Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: ifm on January 06, 2008, 04:33:35 PM When you buy a Bentley continental you get a few more luxuries than when you buy a Volvo S40, this is essentially the difference here, if you want more you pay more.
Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 06, 2008, 04:39:35 PM When you buy a Bentley continental you get a few more luxuries than when you buy a Volvo S40, this is essentially the difference here, if you want more you pay more. That statement suggests that, given the choice, most people would rather have the Bentley than the Volvo. Imagine how popular someone would be if they could supply Bentleys at Volvo prices. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Karabiner on January 06, 2008, 04:40:12 PM When you buy a Bentley continental you get a few more luxuries than when you buy a Volvo S40, this is essentially the difference here, if you want more you pay more. That's just a silly analogy Ian, a two-day event is a two-day event regardless of the price.. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Newportlad on January 06, 2008, 04:40:44 PM Why should you have to pay more for a better structure??
Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: ifm on January 06, 2008, 04:43:14 PM If a volvo s40 had everything a bentley continental had then why buy the bentley?
Ok the analogy may not be perfect but i was trying to make a point, you want the est you pay for it. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 06, 2008, 04:47:15 PM If a volvo s40 had everything a bentley continental had then why buy the bentley? Ok the analogy may not be perfect but i was trying to make a point, you want the est you pay for it. Thank you Ian, I think your arguments are doing more to get my point accross than I ever could. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: AndrewT on January 06, 2008, 04:50:41 PM When you buy a Bentley continental you get a few more luxuries than when you buy a Volvo S40, this is essentially the difference here, if you want more you pay more. Another analogy concerns CPUs for computers. A company may produce two chips exactly the same, but then throttle one so that it runs slower. This then enables them to have price differential which means they can put a premum price on the unaltered chip (as it's quicker than the other one). As far as DTD goes, the increase in chips and clock for the bigger event is where players will get the feeling they're getting better value for their money. If the £500 was 10k/1hr, then players turning up for the £1500 may well start questioning the 10k/1hr clock for that. "This is the same structure as for the £500 - why isn't the £1500 15k chips/90 min clock? What are we paying an extra £1000 for??" Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: ifm on January 06, 2008, 04:52:17 PM If a volvo s40 had everything a bentley continental had then why buy the bentley? Ok the analogy may not be perfect but i was trying to make a point, you want the est you pay for it. Thank you Ian, I think your arguments are doing more to get my point accross than I ever could. You re most welcome, a poll maybe? Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: K9sixtwo on January 06, 2008, 05:15:11 PM I see where you are all coming from and now im confused ... A generous chip allocation and structure should not be a hinderance .. the final reward is in the prize pool..However if the structure and chip allocation is the same for £50 as £1000 then i can understand a disquiet over the higher buy in fee for the same product and service.. All in all though i think that the excellent structure for £50 buy in is to be applauded..
If you pay more for your money you get more back .. A bently and a volvo will both take you from A to B but one will do it in more style... Now I'm confusing myself.... a carefully worded Poll would be good.. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 06, 2008, 05:27:10 PM If a volvo s40 had everything a bentley continental had then why buy the bentley? Ok the analogy may not be perfect but i was trying to make a point, you want the est you pay for it. Thank you Ian, I think your arguments are doing more to get my point accross than I ever could. You re most welcome, a poll maybe? You have already said that the longer clock/more chips structure is the best, (the Bentley), and that's my point too, we agree. A Poll? If you like, but the way it is worded will affect the result a great deal. APAT are a practical demonstration, and the results speak for themselves. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: LLevan on January 06, 2008, 05:32:29 PM Why should the value of the buy in mean that the structure/starting stack is different if both are 2 day events. The argument that you are paying more so expect better is irrelevant in this case since everything you pay less the juice is going into the prize pool and when you enter the tournament you have a rough idea of number of runners and therefore know roughly what the prize fund will be. The analogy between a Volvo and a Bentley is totally irrelevant in the case of 2 different staked poker tournaments both being over a 2 day period. Its totally elitist to state that a main event of a festival designed to be played out over 2 days should have a different starting stack and structure to an earlier smaller stake 2 day event.
Like loads have already said on this thread not everyone can afford the large entry cost of playing main events but if card rooms are prepared to allocate 2 days for a smaller entry tournament there is definitely no reason to give them less starting chips and to miss out levels that would be there for a similar 2 day main event. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: RED-DOG on January 06, 2008, 05:38:57 PM Why should the value of the buy in mean that the structure/starting stack is different if both are 2 day events. The argument that you are paying more so expect better is irrelevant in this case since everything you pay less the juice is going into the prize pool and when you enter the tournament you have a rough idea of number of runners and therefore know roughly what the prize fund will be. The analogy between a Volvo and a Bentley is totally irrelevant in the case of 2 different staked poker tournaments both being over a 2 day period. Its totally elitist to state that a main event of a festival designed to be played out over 2 days should have a different starting stack and structure to an earlier smaller stake 2 day event. Like loads have already said on this thread not everyone can afford the large entry cost of playing main events but if card rooms are prepared to allocate 2 days for a smaller entry tournament there is definitely no reason to give them less starting chips and to miss out levels that would be there for a similar 2 day main event. Would that I could make a point half as eloquently as that. Thank you sir. May your soul get to heaven half an hour before the devil knows you're dead. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: LLevan on January 06, 2008, 05:46:33 PM You are welcome Red even if I think I waffled on a bit there as it was lol
Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Tractor on January 06, 2008, 05:55:03 PM Why should the value of the buy in mean that the structure/starting stack is different if both are 2 day events. The argument that you are paying more so expect better is irrelevant in this case since everything you pay less the juice is going into the prize pool and when you enter the tournament you have a rough idea of number of runners and therefore know roughly what the prize fund will be. The analogy between a Volvo and a Bentley is totally irrelevant in the case of 2 different staked poker tournaments both being over a 2 day period. Its totally elitist to state that a main event of a festival designed to be played out over 2 days should have a different starting stack and structure to an earlier smaller stake 2 day event. Thats exactly right, if its a two day event.Like loads have already said on this thread not everyone can afford the large entry cost of playing main events but if card rooms are prepared to allocate 2 days for a smaller entry tournament there is definitely no reason to give them less starting chips and to miss out levels that would be there for a similar 2 day main event. I personally would prefer an earlier start time and get it done in a full day if possible, to keep expenses down. I really can not understand why weekend tournies can not start early afternoon. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: bobby1 on January 06, 2008, 06:05:29 PM I think it say bundles about how far DTD has raised the bar when the best structures around are still open to change for the better. My view on this is it shouldnt matter if the event is 300/500/1500/15000 any two day event could have the same structure but that is up to the guy running the comp so I am sure if Simon changes it it will be the right decision.
On a seperate note if you were Paul Jackson last night would you have settled for a chip count that usually favours the bigger stacks or insisted on coming back today to finish the event? Say it had been me with the shortstack with a hotel and travel booked for a Sunday return and adamant that I didnt want to deal as the shorty what would have happened? cheers Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: KarmaDope on January 06, 2008, 06:07:27 PM Say it had been me with the shortstack with a hotel and travel booked for a Sunday return and adamant that I didnt want to deal as the shorty what would have happened? If you didn't agree, deal wouldn't have happened, end of. Those are the dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) rules. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: bobby1 on January 06, 2008, 06:17:42 PM Say it had been me with the shortstack with a hotel and travel booked for a Sunday return and adamant that I didnt want to deal as the shorty what would have happened? If you didn't agree, deal wouldn't have happened, end of. Those are the dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) rules. That's fair enough but this is a pretty unique situation in that a two day comp could be finished in 1 day, Im assuming the pressure to deal would have been more than usual and wondered if Paul maybe thought oh balls to it coz he didnt want to hastle the remanining players. Tho financially he might have been better of to play the comp to the end/or when he was in a spot to get a better deal. A as dtd man maybe his thinking was whatever is best for the other players/club, or maybe he is loaded and doesnt need the cash ;) Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: neeko on January 06, 2008, 06:56:31 PM oops this suffers from tl/dr
Price V's value A VW Golf = Skoda Octavia = Seat Leon, these 3 cars are in fact the same and are just dressed slightly differently, and have a different badge and price tag. Despite this the most expensive sells the most. You can use this example to prove that people don't want good value. A structure is only as relevant as the players want to play, last night the players were racing along, and it was not the blinds that forced the play, but rather the aggressive nature of tournament professionals who wanted to knock each other out. It would be great if one day DTD could offer 2 £50 events both starting at the same time - same structure, same starting chips, one 20 mins and one 30 mins. Let the customers vote with their feet, quick or slow structure, and over 200 people per night will get to have a tournament - (only 15 more dealers needed :) ). Another detail of any event, is the ability of the TD to alter the structure, to deal with the number of runners, and the "lemming like" abilities of the players. There have been many comments about the changing of a structures after the event has started - either speeding it up or slowing it down. I would like to see an event (at any buy in) where the TD is given the ability to slow the mins, add a level or equally reduce either with the pre stated goal of ending at X am. To aid player visibility, say a venue decided to play a 30 mins comp for 9 hours then levels can be added or withdrawn (still with a 30 mins clock) to ensure this result. (with level changes communicated to players 15 mins before each change). As to whether a Volvo is better than a Bentley, a Volvo VC90 is best for a family, a Bentley Continental GT is best for the golf course and a Lotus Exige would give me the biggest smile. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: turny on January 06, 2008, 06:57:15 PM who actually said a longer clock, more chips and more levels make for a better competition?
you can give to much, it kills the game we call poker and as someone said before you can pass your way to a win! a good balance which allows patient play but also allows players to make moves is best imo. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Longy on January 06, 2008, 06:59:43 PM Say it had been me with the shortstack with a hotel and travel booked for a Sunday return and adamant that I didnt want to deal as the shorty what would have happened? If you didn't agree, deal wouldn't have happened, end of. Those are the dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) rules. That's fair enough but this is a pretty unique situation in that a two day comp could be finished in 1 day, Im assuming the pressure to deal would have been more than usual and wondered if Paul maybe thought oh balls to it coz he didnt want to hastle the remanining players. Tho financially he might have been better of to play the comp to the end/or when he was in a spot to get a better deal. A as dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) man maybe his thinking was whatever is best for the other players/club, or maybe he is loaded and doesnt need the cash ;) I think DTD have the fairest way of mathematically sorting out a deal and is in line with realtive equity in the tourney. Generally deals from an EV tend to disadvantage the big stacks as well as they can use their stacks to increase their equity by pressurising the mediums stack who are trying to climb the payout structure. The middle stacks benefit most from the deals IMO. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: The Nomad on January 06, 2008, 08:57:37 PM Structures Bolloks heres a good one lets slow it dwn to 45 minj increases more play for everyone ,.........wrong I had built up my stack at the right time so 6 players were under the cosh worstw
Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Tractor on January 06, 2008, 09:13:28 PM Structures Bolloks heres a good one lets slow it dwn to 45 minj increases more play for everyone ,.........wrong I had built up my stack at the right time so 6 players were under the cosh worstw Were you on the final table? Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: ariston on January 06, 2008, 09:22:07 PM who actually said a longer clock, more chips and more levels make for a better competition? you can give to much, it kills the game we call poker and as someone said before you can pass your way to a win! a good balance which allows patient play but also allows players to make moves is best imo. the rocks say it obviously. I for one haven't been down to dtd yet but will be looking forward to visiting soon and playing whatever structure they have decided on. They could always go down the bellagio route and give us all 50k and a two hour clock allowing red and womble etc to fold every hand barring aces for 2 days str8 (dont forget the 75/150 and 150/300 levels as with only 50k in front of me to fold with I dont want to have to play any poker). I always thought the best players adapted to whatever structure they were playing in (and no I dont mean me). Mickey sure didnt seem to mind the structure last night making another final table. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Royal Flush on January 06, 2008, 10:04:31 PM So people who can't afford to play festival main events shouldn't get the chance to play that structure, even though time will allow it? Eh? If you can afford to play a £500 DTD event why would you not be able to afford a £500 ME? I am at a loss to understand that. I like the variety of being able to play a faster paced tournament for £500. If i want to play a 10k 1hr £500 event there are plenty all year, not many 7k 40/45 min events at 500 though. Well done to DTD for giving the players what they want and breaking the casino monotony. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: ariston on January 06, 2008, 10:16:32 PM So people who can't afford to play festival main events shouldn't get the chance to play that structure, even though time will allow it? Eh? If you can afford to play a £500 dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) event why would you not be able to afford a £500 ME? I am at a loss to understand that. I like the variety of being able to play a faster paced tournament for £500. If i want to play a 10k 1hr £500 event there are plenty all year, not many 7k 40/45 min events at 500 though. Well done to dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) for giving the players what they want and breaking the casino monotony. dont make it too quick though, we dont want players having to lower their raising standards to queens do we ;) I like that fact that some players succeed in the faster events instead of waiting to see who has caught aces/kings or AKs the most times over a 2 day yawn fest. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: Ironside on January 07, 2008, 02:54:26 AM i think the structure was way too fast for the way i play
or the way i play was way too crap for the table i played on one or the other anyway the main event of any festival will be more than likely over 3,4 or 5 days so i think there is no point argueing over the chps and blinds for a 2 day 144 max event and a 5 day 600 player event different beasts Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: turny on January 07, 2008, 01:32:27 PM who actually said a longer clock, more chips and more levels make for a better competition? you can give to much, it kills the game we call poker and as someone said before you can pass your way to a win! a good balance which allows patient play but also allows players to make moves is best imo. the rocks say it obviously. I for one haven't been down to dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) yet but will be looking forward to visiting soon and playing whatever structure they have decided on. They could always go down the bellagio route and give us all 50k and a two hour clock allowing red and womble etc to fold every hand barring aces for 2 days str8 (dont forget the 75/150 and 150/300 levels as with only 50k in front of me to fold with I dont want to have to play any poker). I always thought the best players adapted to whatever structure they were playing in (and no I dont mean me). Mickey sure didnt seem to mind the structure last night making another final table. being a rock is not playing poker imo Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: byronkincaid on January 07, 2008, 01:49:56 PM the longer the clock the more time the LAGs have to steal pots and beat Aces with 52o?
the higher the blinds the more it becomes a maths equation and reduces the LAGs edge? Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: turny on January 07, 2008, 01:57:26 PM somewhere in between suits all.
by trying to extend levels/add levels/increase chips and using the saying its what the majority of players want is just an excuse for trying to get what one wants for once self to suit ones own game gaining an edge. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: turny on January 07, 2008, 02:00:33 PM the longer the clock the more time the LAGs have to steal pots and beat Aces with 52o? the higher the blinds the more it becomes a maths equation and reduces the LAGs edge? being a LAG is not just about stealing blinds. many LAGS dont even attempt blind steals in the early levels as the values to do so is not there. Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: byronkincaid on January 07, 2008, 02:01:38 PM i didn't mention stealing blinds ???
Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: 77dave on January 07, 2008, 02:07:11 PM I have been away for a few days so I have missed all the comments since i originally posted on this thread.
I posted that there are too many comps these days with lots of chips long clocks and lots of levels I think the key to me is terminology The £500 at DTD was a 2 day event whereas the Luton £100 is a tournament So i guess i have switched sides a bit and im now saying i want events to have the best structures as possible. Comps should be value but not a slugfest a normal regular comp should be a good level buyin but not needed to run until 5am everynight Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: 77dave on January 07, 2008, 02:09:54 PM I played the £500 last week at s'end i believe it was 10k in chips with levels 25/50 50/100 75/150 100/200 150/300 200/400 as i say im not looking for crap shoots but i also want to be able to put people under pressure for there chips i think luton has gone too far with there comps the final started at 4.50am on boxing day (im at the point where i have stopped playing them as too many people are passing there way to the final ) This £500 comp at dt (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload)d (http://www.dtdpoker.com/aff/BlonditesDownload) is a special one off event so for me i think it should have as good a strucutre as any because it is a headlining event Bit harsh & it started at 1am. sorry wrong comp the sunday £100 between xmas and ny started the final at 5am 750,000 chips in play Title: Re: Delicately dissing dtd Post by: turny on January 07, 2008, 05:42:19 PM i didn't mention stealing blinds ??? a tikay misread lol |