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The 2nd leg

Why are Carling Cup semi's two legs anyway?

Just play it at a neutral venue.

Or better still, scrap the whole competition.

its football, Sunday's exciting game was an anomaly, tonight's more like the norm.

The Premiership has been fantastic this season.

Man City, Tottenham and Arsenal are an absolute joy to watch.

Some of the most exciting games I've ever seen.

But the Carling Cup and even the FA Cup are a waste of time.

Let's just have the league and Europe.

The League Cup should be an under 23's competition for the Premier League sides. I don't care if people think it devalues it, having half the teams put out 30 year old journeyman for their one game of the season is what really devalues it.

The FA saw to it that the FA Cup would forever be ruined when they sent Manchester United off to that useless tournament in an attempt to win favour for their aborted World Cup 2008 bid

Something needs to be done to reinvigorate both competitions.

The League Cup should be an under 23's competition for the Premier League sides. I don't care if people think it devalues it, having half the teams put out 30 year old journeyman for their one game of the season is what really devalues it.

United saw to it that the FA Cup would forever be ruined when they fecked off to that useless tournament rather than play in the FA Cup.

Something needs to be done to reinvigorate both competitions.

fyp

Giving the FA Cup winner a Champions League spot is the only answer.

Carling Cup >>>>>> FA Cup for me

The Premiership has been fantastic this season.

Man City, Tottenham and Arsenal are an absolute joy to watch.

Some of the most exciting games I've ever seen.

But the Carling Cup and even the FA Cup are a waste of time.

Let's just have the league and Europe.

0-0 games can be as exciting as a 3-2.

That's true but that happens a very small % of the time doesn't it?

I just think some games that aren't on TV are great games that we miss out on, some that are choosing, such as tonights game are pretty boring games. Overall though I still think it's good viewing as long as you actually like football and we are lucky that there are so many televised games now compared to 20 years ago.

Hi Keith,

How you been mate?

There have been 40 games in the Prem this season with either one goal or less and 7 that ended 3-2 either way, so tonight's game is nearer the norm. Tho Sundays FA cup game being a str8 knock out tie instead of tonight's 2 leg affair deffo makes a difference.

Those teams you listed are the best in the country and far more likely to provide good games but in general the entertainment value of football has declined in most major leagues in recent years if you use goals scored as the barometer. Probably because the best players end up at a small selection of clubs.

Take Spain for example, most people put La Liga forward as the best/most exciting league in the world but almost every game we see in the UK features Bacra or Real. No doubt they are the most exciting games goals wise but they aren't the norm. For all the plaudits given to La Liga there have been more 0-0 games there this season than any of the 5 big country leagues (23), Italy in second (20) and 58 games in Spain featured 1 goal or less. So the norm in that league too is for less scoring in games featuring average teams, the opposite of what we see on TV.

The main reason for the big drop in goals in Spain this season is prob the same reason as Engalnd, best players end up at big clubs but the other huge factor this year is the lack of money that these clubs now have to reinvest.

Gonna admit Newcastle are half-decent yet Keith? :D

One good player, who is going to leave in the transfer window, doesn't make Newcastle a good team Floppy!

Who is that then?

One good player, who is going to leave in the transfer window, doesn't make Newcastle a good team Floppy!

Ba obv.

Honest opinion about Newcastle is that Pardew has got them super fit. They run til the 90th minute and are very dangerous in the last 10 minutes of games.

Dropping Obertain has definitely improved the side, and Krul has been a pleasant surprise. Collocini has been good, definitely proved me wrong. And I have never seen a winger work as hard as Jonas does. Shame his end product doesn't match his effort.

However, you are still in a false position imo, not enough quality in the side, far too reliant on Ba's goals. Danny Simpson and Ryan Taylor + whoever plays alongside Demba aren't premiership standard.

Top half finish and Pardew deserves the freedom of the cty imo.

Describing Collocini as "good" is the biggest understatement of the year, he has been the best defender in the premiership bar absolutely none.

I take it you're a Newcastle fan?  ::)

Christ, just got to the bit about Tiote and Cabaye being the best partnership in the league.

Oh dear.

Edit: Fuck me, just read it all.

Given what you've said Pleno

Your team is:

Krul

X X Collocini X
Ben Arfa Tiote Cabaye X
Ba X

So you're effectively 5 good players away from having the best team in the league? What a load of rubbish.

Also, as for the meanest defence bollocks, the following teams have a better defensive record than you lot in the league this season:

Man City
Man Utd
Spurs
Liverpool
Sunderland
Everton
Swansea

Whilst Chelsea have conceded exactly the same amount of goals.

;booder;

as a football socut and an opinion i respect, what exactly do you disagree with?

I only pointed out things I disagreed with Camel.

We have Jonas who is such an important player to the team and adds pace/power and defensive cover to our defence. So put him in the X.

We have Davide Santon (Italian u21 captain and already played numerous times for Italy which is hard to do when you're only 20) who has been MOTM everytime he has played and has been described by Jose Mourinho as PHENOMINAL and ONE OF THE BEST I'VE EVER WORKED WITH. Many other "neutrals" on here have commented on him icluding Maldini who is known to have a good understanding.

So we now have 7 stars? not bad for a team that a manager should receive freedom of the city if he manages to keep us in the top half.

I'm unsure why the Cabaye/Tiote thing upsets you so much? Could you name a better partnership? Giggs/Carrick? Nah. Merieles/Romeu? Nah. Barry/Toure? Nah. Adam/Henderson? Nah.

Squad Players

Guthire
Ryan Taylor
Best
Shola
Williamson
Obertan

Can all add something to the squad.

By the way we have done all this by spending less money than we've received from transfers.

We have the best scouting system in the country, by what Camel says, we have one of the best managers in the country, we have one of if not the best striker in the country, we have without doubt the best defender in the country, we have one of if not the best goalkeeper in the country who should stay here for the next 10 years and we have one of if not the best central midfield partnerships in the country.

Regarding the goals conceded, you are absolutely correct although we conceded the bulk of our goals (4 vs norwich, 3 vs west brom) with a comedy back line due to injurys. Hopefully Ashley will bring in some players to make sure this doesn't happen in the future.

Hi Keith,

I'm going to bite.

Little bit confused about your post here. How much of Newcastle have you seen this year?

I think you are missing out on one big piece of info here which is that there are ALOT of bad teams in the Prem this year. I think that if Pardew didn't manage to get us a top half finish he should seriously take a hard look at himself. I think anything less than 9th would be a huge underachievement.

Describing Collocini as "good" is the biggest understatement of the year, he has been the best defender in the premiership bar absolutely none.

Cabaye was without doubt the best buy in the summer, remember we bought him for 5m Euro's. Alongside Tiote they are the best midfield pairing in the premiership and compliment eachothers game fantastically. They would both get in any other side in the premiership. City included.

Yes Ba is good, but again that was a great buy that allowed us to spend money on other players.

Confused about the criticism of both Danny Simpson and Ryan Taylor they have both been almost ever present in the meanest defence in the country over the last 4 months. Simpson throws his body on the line and wins us points just like Ba does, I'm not sure if you saw the Man United match, but Simpsons clearance at 2-0 with 20 minutes to go was just as important for gaining 3 points as Ba's goal was in the first half.

We also have the best keeper in the premiership at the moment.

We also have Ben Arfa who is arguably the most talented player in the premiership who showed last week that he is coming back to his best and scored a goal that Messi would wank over.

With our policy of only buying players under 26, the future at NUFC looks extremely bright.

I count 8 stars. I'm an Arsenal fan and I don't think we have 8 stars. Then again I'm a bit more realistic about just how good my team are...

Pleno, if every quote attributable to any young player coming through was true, then we'd have had 20 Maradona's by now, 10 more Messi's etc etc. Fact is Inter were happy to let Santon go, so let's not get too far ahead of ourselves with him, eh?

The thing with the Tiote/Cabaye thing is that in order to be completely fair, you have to compare it with midfield trios too as some teams use that. You can't simply pick Barry and Toure out as they're part of a 3 man midfield. In any case, I'd have Man City's, Arsenal's and Spurs' midfield trios over your duo.

Best scouting networks? Was this the one that sent you down, or a new one? Best manager? Isn't this the manager fired from Charlton and Southampton? You're starting to sound like a Liverpool fan. For years they've had the best players in every position yet funnily enough never finished top.

We're halfway through the season and after a blistering start you've dropped off the pace somewhat. You're a good side without being much more than that. I expect you to finish 7th or 8th which would be a fantastic achievement. Leave it at that rather than making ridiculous posts telling us how you've got 8 of the best players in the league, perhaps?

blimey....

The single biggest mistake all football fans make imo is massively overrating the players they see play most often but I have never seen someone do it that extent.

Regarding the goals conceded, you are absolutely correct although we conceded the bulk of our goals (4 vs norwich, 3 vs west brom) with a comedy back line due to injurys. Hopefully Ashley will bring in some players to make sure this doesn't happen in the future.

Well we both are so sure, lets bet on Newcastle finishing in the top half?

Well we both are so sure, lets bet on Newcastle finishing in the top half?

Mother always said never argue with someone who wont change their mind!

Where do you think your best 11 ranks in the prem?

I said, quite clearly, that I expect you to finish 7th or 8th, so why would I possibly take that bet? Unless of course you think you'll finish in the bottom half?

The point I'm trying to make is you're clearly very misty-eyed when it comes to your club as you've pretty much made out that 7 of the first starting XI are the best players in their position in the country.

That my friend, is a load of shite.

I think 3 of them (Krul, Collocini and Ba) are the best in their positions at the moment.

I think Cabaye and Tiote are the best midfield partnership (as a 2)

I think Jonas is hard working and fits in perfectly with the team, this doesn't mean he is in the best 11 players in the country.

I think when fit Steven Taylor is a perfect fit for Collocini but again would not be in the best 11 players in the country.

I think 3 of them (Krul, Collocini and Ba) are the best in their positions at the moment.

Talking of exciting sport check this out.

http://www.brobible.com/videos/watch/chinese-womens-volleyball-rally

We getting a really nice squad together now. We should sign 3 players before the window and have a really good chance of top 10 finish.

GK. Krul/Harper. Krul has been magnificant so far, with Harper on the bench offering experience/guidance he could turn into a top 3 keeper this year                                                                                              8/10
RB. Simpson/Ryan Taylor   Steady. Not great. Ryan Taylor has scored 2/3 goals this season and can offer great service both on the wings and set pieces                                                                                          6/10
LB. Nobody/Ferguson We will sign a 6-8m defender who will really help the defence and then we have young Shane Ferguson who is a good talent                                                                                               8/10
CB. Collocini For me he is top 3 CB in prem. Our captain now and I wish I had curly hair too                                                                                                                                                                                   9/10
CB. Steven Taylor/Williamson Local lad, wears his heart on the sleeve. Will score 5 important goals a season and is great in the air too. Mike Williamson is a great cover defender who makes no mistakes                   9/10

DM Tiote/Gosling Tiote is our Essien. Breaks everything up and is composed on the ball. Slow pre season but expect him to be POTS this year, Gosling is a fantastic back up DM for us. Very happy here                   9/10
CM1 Cabaye/Haris Vuckic Was the playmaker last year for Lille who won the French league. Everything goes through him and he is very important player. Vuckic is a young but promosing replacement                 8/10
AM Ben Arfa When fit he will be one of the most exciting players in the prem, he showed it last season and every Newcastle fan cant stop talking about him                                                                                        9/10

RW Marveux Fast, athletic, skillful. Back from injury now and will be permanent fixture in our team. He will scare defences if we can keep him fit.                                                                                                        8/10
LW Jonas Guttierez Starts for Argentina's national team. Very direct, very fast/strong. Can help out the midfield/defence and will create alot too. Has had 2 seasons now so is v.settled.                                                8/10

ST We are expected to buy somebody this week for around £10m, spending some of the Carroll money. Very excited about who they can bring in.   We also have Ba who has impressive record at West Ham last year        ?/10

Bench    8/10

Harper
Barton
Ryan Taylor
Williamson
Smith
Gosling
Vuckic
Sammy Ameobi
Shola
Best
Ba
Lovenkrands

Lol pads

rotflmfao. Bless ya.... Be happy if you get 11th-12th.

lolz. You definitely are a glass half full man.

Ok you got me, this is clearly a level.

Whats a level?

Collocini has been the best centre half this season. It doesnt matter if Vidic was better 2 years ago.

Hart and Krul have been on par IMO.

Ba has been as good as RVP.

Don't think he's saying Colo is the best CB more that he is playing the best. Vermaelen been injured and shuffled around the defence but good in patches, Vidic has hardly played this season and Kompany is obv great but he's been sent of twice this season already. He thinks Colo is in the best form. Maybe the others can raise their above him but pleno doesn't think they have at the moment.

I'm confused. There's just no way you can actually believe what you've just written.

I'd take the following cbs over Collocini:

Kompany, Vidic and Vermaelen.

Hart has been better than Krul. No doubt about it. Krul has been excellent but Hart's been far and away the stand out keeper.

Your ridiculous bias shines through over the Ba issue though. There's no doubt he's done really well for you this season, but he's nowhere near the player Van Persie is.

I'd be shocked if you could find another poster on this forum who agrees with you that those three are the best in their respective positions.

Don't think he's saying Colo is the best CB more that he is playing the best. Vermaelen been injured and shuffled around the defence but good in patches, Vidic has hardly played this season and Kompany is obv great but he's been sent of twice this season already. He thinks Colo is in the best form. Maybe the others can raise their above him but pleno doesn't think they have at the moment.

And I also think that its debatable that Vidic is better than Collocini,

Vermaelen's been excellent. It's no surprise the minute he was fit we looked a different side at the back. He's an incredibly dominating centre-back who offers a lot on the ball and is a ridiculous threat going forward given his position.

Vidic is injured at the moment sure, but he's a world class centre back who would walk into any side in the world when fit.

Kompany's brilliant. You can ignore the red card vs Liverpool as it wasn't one. Either way he's absolutely superb.

I see where you're coming from, but if that's what Pleno means (and I don't think he does) then what time-scale is he basing Collocini's form on?

i sort of agree with pads although its all obviously subjective.

I think there is an amount of top team bias from you lot, best player in the top teams is always going to look standout better.

You either agree or you don't. It's not that hard.

Are Krul, Collocini and Ba the best players in the league in their respective positions?

Yes or no?

Debateable

Krul doesn't get the same protection as Hart but has been a great shot stopper and totally rock solid from set pieces etc - would like to look up opta stats on shots on their respective golas etc
Collicini is the big doubt for me in pads thinking, i think vermalen is the best CB in the world - but based on the seasons they are having its prob Kompany
Ba doesn't get anything like the service that RVP gets but he's got almost as good a record. Again trawling some opta stats would be good. Wish we'd signed him, i'm sure that dodgy knee will flare up soon...

Talking of exciting sport check this out.

http://www.brobible.com/videos/watch/chinese-womens-volleyball-rally

Need anyone say anymore?  :D

That's one hell of a quote for us all to remember.

I really don't. You obviously havn't seen Collocini play reguarly. As you have already admitted in the thread, I have and I have seen plenty of Vidic so please bore off. Watch us play QPR tonight if you like, I'm sure Colo will get another MOM.

Has Colocinni really been the best DEF in the country this season?  Better than Kompany?  I can't disagree to the point of an argument over it as I don't see enough Prem games or Newcastle games.   

Is Ben Arfa really the most talented player in the Prem, even when he gets 100% fit?  I think if I asked 10 random football fans not one would have him in their top 5.  He may prove to be decent of course, but done diddly squat so far, injury being the reason of course.

The meanest defence?  Have I read the table wrong or do you have like the 6/7th best defence?

Tiote/Cabaye are the 'best cen mid pairing' in the Prem?  Better than Toure & Silva? 

Krul has had a great season as is probably the most improved keeper, but is he better than Reina/Hart?

All imo :)

One scout to another thanks for writing all that, agree agree agree.

lol, hows it going so far?

shoot, just remembered you asked me for those templates a couple of months back, PM me if you still need anything

I really don't. You obviously havn't seen Collocini play reguarly. As you have already admitted in the thread, I have and I have seen plenty of Vidic so please bore off. Watch us play QPR tonight if you like, I'm sure Colo will get another MOM.

At first I did fear for QPR on Sunday when I read this, but then I remembered we managed a 0-0 draw with Newcastle earlier in the season, which I think makes us better than Barcelona, so we should be OK.

Ha yeh I meant Sunday :D

Internet mate, stream every Newcastle game and theres a bar in Gib that shows every single Newcastle match on big screens etc.

I remember watching the QPR v Newcastle game earlier in the season and they battered you. They were very unlucky not to leave with all 3 points.

Ha yeh I meant Sunday :D

Internet mate, stream every Newcastle game and theres a bar in Gib that shows every single Newcastle match on big screens etc.

Fair enough. I haven't watched much Prem footy, but definitely you are performing above expectations.

end the debate right now.

Krul not the best, concerns about his kicking from open play, but he willl be very, very good and is already better than Reina. Hart still the man to beat in that position though Krul not very far behind and already light years ahead of Cech and De Gea.

Colo. He's the love of my life, I'd let him shag my wife, I wish I had curly hair too. On form, the best defender in England bar absolutely none. I've never seen Vermaelen or Kompany put the best strikers in his back pocket as often as Colo has this season. If you disagree, you're not watching us enough. Or you're a Citeh/Arsenal fan. Once Vidic is fit again I'm certain he'll come back to be number 1 in this position quickly.

Ba. Great goalscorer, has a lot to offer the team, will be a miss. Goals make a striker though, which I guess makes him the second best striker in England at the moment, behind the one man of Arsenal's one man team, RVP.

Tiote and Cabaye are fantastic. Cabaye is missing a sharpness against the bigger boys, but I'd take either of them over Chelsea's mid, Gareth Barry's best years are 90 years ago, etc.

It's all about perspective. We need a new right back (imo) because Danny S, for all his last ditch defending which has been great is too likely to cause a calamity.

We also suffer from small squad syndrome which cost us against WBA and Norwich, but that's part of the thrill of watching NUFC. Tank the big teams and then get held 0-0 by Swansea at home in the most frustrating game ever. #upsanddownsofthetoon

Hi ACE,

When I first saw this I thought it must have been tampered with to make it look that amazing.

Try Gerard and Lucas for Liverpool and see what that price comes in at. Not a bad duo for £2m.

Modric/Parker best midfield for me this season.

Good stats + figures Pleno, and certainly points out the value for money Newcastle have had.

But its a completely seperate argument to saying 'they're the best' etc

try adam and henderson both who have played more games this season. quite a bad duo for 30m, our whole team doesnt even cost that much :D

I genuinely think that the Newcastle players have outshone all of the other combos this year with the exception on RVP (par) and Modric/Parker.

Make your mind up, 1 minute your talking about this season, then past 12 months now back to this season again.
Henderson has spend most of the season at RM.

If everyone is fit Gerard/Lucas is the midfield duo.

How would this thread be going if Tiote + Cabaye were injured.

perhaps blondes expectations yes!

Like the way Wilshere is conviently forgotten even tho he is obviously the best midfielder in the prem and cost 0

Talking of exciting sport check this out.

http://www.brobible.com/videos/watch/chinese-womens-volleyball-rally

Although we are talking about talent.

I'd just like to point out. Tiote + Cabaye= 7m

Anderson + Carrick = over 30m

Silva + Toure = over 60m

Modric + Parke= over 20m

Mata + Ramires= over 25m

Adam + Henderson = over 30m

Arteta= more than Cabaye+ Tiote

I won't even get into wages..

This is what I was trying to say about our scouting system

Ba+ Best= 1m


Rooney+ Hernandez= 50m+

Torress+ Drogba = 70m+

Aguero+ Ballotelli= 70m+

RVP+ Chamak= over 20m?

Again won't get into wages or cost of back up players.

When Newcastle won't spend 10m on every squad member like the top 5/6 do it is impossible for us to finish top of the league. Whilst it remeains like this if we finish "top of the rest" whilst spending less then we will be doing very well.

Please quote me on where I said that.

When you fail to find the post, because it doesn't exist, I would love an apology for you making up a complete lie in order to try and aid your argument.

Best of luck on the search.

Good thread.  Everyone ignoring the Ridic OP, and turning it into a great football discussion. 


Also this not getting enough love.

2011/2012  prem X1

RVP
Bale silva parker Yaya Mata
A.Cole  Colocini kompany Richards
Hart

You may now all stop saying x is best in their position.

Ps Modric/silva is close and Ba is just another Zaki/reyes

it's an easy game when the referee only gives decisions to one team. We played well but never looked like winning it. They were defo assisted by the ref.

Like the way Wilshere is conviently forgotten even tho he is obviously the best midfielder in the prem and cost 0

Also rofls at Krul being better than Reina, Reina is the best in the lge for me.

Krul has made 2 huge errors this season, Krul hasn't. And those are the only 2 I've seen, maybe more....

Really ? He has massive potential and is already v good but no way is he the best midfielder in the Lge, I would take : Bale/Modric/Nasri/Silva/Toure ahead of him for starters.

I really don't. You obviously havn't seen Collocini play reguarly. As you have already admitted in the thread, I have and I have seen plenty of Vidic so please bore off. Watch us play QPR tonight if you like, I'm sure Colo will get another MOM.

You realise Bale is a winger and not a central midfielder like Wilshere, right?

If you'd watched Nasri at all you know he's been average at best at City this season and had half a good season at Arsenal last year before disappearing off the face of the Earth. I'd take Wilshere over him every single day of the week.

I do realise where Bale plays yes, I also realise that Dubai said midfielder not central midfielder.

Arguing semantics because your wrong. Brilliant.

Nice to see you didn't put up an argument for your inclusion of Nasri. Then again it's pointless arguing with people who actually watch him play so I don't blame you.

As for Nasri, your an Arsenal fan.

Nasri has provided a good few assists this year and I think he is harshly criticised. I rhink both players would be wanted by any team in the world outside of barca/bayern/real. Yet I think Wiltshire already having a serious injury along with a questions about his temprement/personal life.

Arguing semantics because your wrong. Brilliant.

Nice to see you didn't put up an argument for your inclusion of Nasri. Then again it's pointless arguing with people who actually watch him play so I don't blame you.

You really can't have a debate can you? Anyone with a different opinion is just wrong.
Monda owned you here and you react like a little brat.

i'll bite.

i'd play bale in wilshire's position before wilshire.

I thought a winger was someone who played Left Midfield or Right Midfield ?

As for form, that's what it is, form. He's a class player and has done more than Wilshire due to the fact Wilshire is 20 years old and has played 38 games thus is still unproven so I'd rather have Nasri. It's also not that unusual for someone to start slowly at a new club so I'm sure Mancini's not to worried about Nasri.

You come across very aggressive and patronising but I'm sure this is just the way you are and not just another one of the internet's special people.

Is a winger a midfielder to you? To me he's a winger. There's a difference that is so unbelievably obvious I really fail to see how you can't see it. Comparing Bale to Wilshere is a complete and utter waste of time.

Irrelevant point

Sarcy Comment

Blah

Are you and Pleno a comedy duo?

http://www.faw.org.uk/PlayerDisplay.ink?skip=0&squadno=11129&season=11/12&seasonl=2011/2012&Playertype=p (http://www.faw.org.uk/PlayerDisplay.ink?skip=0&squadno=11129&season=11/12&seasonl=2011/2012&Playertype=p)
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/players/first_team/garethbale.html
Wales and Spurs both list Bale as a midfielder. I think it's quite reasonable for Monda to include him in a debate on midfielders if he thinks his talent is deserving of being included.
Instead of saying something like "I disagree but it's hard to compare as they play different roles, I believe Dubai was probably referring to central midfielders" you try and make somebody look a dick.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I gave my opinion, just because you disagree with it and have watched them play more doesn't mean mine has to change. I am really suprised that Wenger and the Arsenal fans didn't want to snap City's hands off when they offered so much for Nasri if he was only good for 6 months, as I remember it nobody wanted him to leave ?

Pretty suprised to read that Nasri has the 2nd highest amount of assist in the League after Silva who the pundits say is currently the best player in the league, if that's Nasri when he's shit how good will he be when he sorts his form out.

Nasri has been rank for city, them stats are skewed because IIRC Nasri got 3/4 assists on his debut, but has beeen doin sweet fk all since. Tonight he was woeful done nothing everytime he got it, he seemed the donk in amongst the class of the rest of the City team.

Carling Cup >>>>>> FA Cup for me