whats a guy got to do to win a game of poker???

[snoopy1239]

Hmm....

As much as I'm sure Adam is grateful for the constructive critisism I would guess all of us have been in his shoes at one point and needed to just get it off our chests. I agree with what everyone has said - completely.

Yes, I have, and this is why I was trying to help. Just being blunt because I thought that was the best policy to get my point across, didn't mean to sound overly critical, offensive, or argumentative.

... but I'm sure Adam knew that anyway.

If we all commiserate with his outdraws and say 'hard luck, there, there,' he won't get anywhere. I used to do this, way too much... and mainly in the chatboxes, and it just made me more and more angry... and made me lose my focus on the game.

Poker's a tough game when you're always cursing your luck.

[AdamM]

I've been thinking about 'form' since I started this thread.
I first played at the casino Jan 04 and made a 3 way count for £1670
I finalled 3 out of my first 4 attempts
something like 7 from my first 10
by the end of 2004 it settled down to 10 from 30
then between Jan 2005 and November 2005 I couldn'y hit the final table if I threw a chair at it. I scraped into a couple of 10th/9th spots but other than that nothing.
then after the game me and snoops talked about earlier in the thread where I scraped into the final and got AA bust first round I went on to final 14 times between Dec 1st and mid march.
since then I've had a series of terrible beats, the first of which was an AAvQQ that lost me a pot which would have seen me final with 40% of the chips in play. since then I've been back to scraping the odd £100 cash but not making the business end of any tourneys.

So what's happening?
well my best results and biggest cashes all came when I was a far worse player but wasnt relying on the cashes to pay the weekly grocery shop. I'm probably playing a lot more pots because I was a total rock when I started playing there. I'm getting good at getting my pots very big when I have very big hands. I'm picking up a lot of small / medium pots on semi bluffs or total steal and being generally busier but when I have AAvAK or QQvAQ or AAvKK I'm getting the pots nice and big. that means that when the variance swings back my way I'll be getting myself chipped up.
I'm trying very hard to play 'proper' poker around bubble time but that'll improve when I have a decent cash and get a little breathing space.
I think the main thing I can control is frame of mind. If I can stay positive and not let it get me down (as suggested by my blunt friends here) I'm sure I'll turn this bad run into a spring board for a run of results. even in bad runs like this I'm either finalling short or at least getting to semi so a few better breaks from the deck and I should get myself back on track

[Royal Flush]

Adam i still think you are missing the point, you APPEAR to have a losing outlook on the game.....

£20 single rebuy game at Notts. With an eye on the £300 double chance at walsall Saturday I decide rather than playing to cash like I normally do, I’m playing for the win

While you normally play to cash you will NOT be a winning player. Change that and let the cards worry about themselves

[AdamM]

I think you're missing the point of my situation. in the first year I was keeping my winnings as a bankroll and was working. through all this there's been a house move, two jobs lost (one through illness/stress and one through redundancy) a business set up and a second child arrive. All that wiped my bankroll out twice over. I have to play to cash because there are pressing money issues every week. I'm aware of the need to get ahead so I dont have to worry about this weeks bills during this weeks game. By the sentence you've quoted, you can see I'm working on that but I'm a shining example of why it's important to be properly bankrolled. Thats not something I can put right with the click of my fingers and cashing remains the priority in every tourney. I only need a couple of my finals to be converted to top three finishes for the pressure to be off and for me to play the games less affraid of the bubble. Thats why the beats are so frustrating you see. If I'm getting deep in a tourney and I look like finalling with double average chips then my aces get cracked by the only other deep stack holding Queens it's double the pain because the light at the end of the tunnel is snuffed out.

I'm not letting the need to cash affect many of my decisions at the table. As Bongo reassured me, I'm still playing, not to avoid being knocked out, but playing to accumulate chips. My situation just sways me in marginal situations. the opposite to the effect Julian was discussing sponsorship had on his game on 425 the other week. when it comes to an all or nothing gamble I have to back off and Julian, or a properly bankrolled player can take the shot.

Im playing the £20 single rebuy and the £30 freeze because those are the smallest games available. a wednesday pays £1k for 1st and the sunday about £600. one top two finish gives me some breathing space and a second gives me a workable bankroll. THEN I can start really playing in the moment, without having to have an eye on the food cupboards.

[redsimon]

I've been thinking about 'form' since I started this thread.
I first played at the casino Jan 04 and made a 3 way count for £1670
I finalled 3 out of my first 4 attempts
something like 7 from my first 10
by the end of 2004 it settled down to 10 from 30
then between Jan 2005 and November 2005 I couldn'y hit the final table if I threw a chair at it. I scraped into a couple of 10th/9th spots but other than that nothing.


then after the game me and snoops talked about earlier in the thread where I scraped into the final and got AA bust first round I went on to final 14 times between Dec 1st and mid march.
since then I've had a series of terrible beats, the first of which was an AAvQQ that lost me a pot which would have seen me final with 40% of the chips in play. since then I've been back to scraping the odd £100 cash but not making the business end of any tourneys.

Adam let me introduce you to "regression to the mean"

[Royal Flush]

Well Adam i don't really know what to say here.

Your bankroll is that thin, and you rely on it to feed you and your family!

All the other advice is useless in this thread, my only advice would be to get a job for now, give yourself some stability and less stress! Then down the line when you have enough cash you can go back to playing the game.

[RobS]

Well Adam i don't really know what to say here.

Your bankroll is that thin, and you rely on it to feed you and your family!

All the other advice is useless in this thread, my only advice would be to get a job for now, give yourself some stability and less stress! Then down the line when you have enough cash you can go back to playing the game.

I agree with this.

Also you are playing one if the highest variance forms of poker. Live MTT's. 30 hands an hour with 10% of the field paid. Even if you think you have a 100% ROI in these things, in a £20 single rebuy comp you are going to average £40 for eight hours 'work', and it's going to take years for your luck to average out. 

Surely you would be better off playing online single table tournaments. Easy money with a lot less variance and you can make many more investments (in terms of buyin's) in the same timescale.

[AdamM]

a job is sometimes tempting, but the easy way out. I have the shirt making equipment, the stock and gradually increasing orders. the shirts company is designed to pay the bills. just a case of survival until then.

I do play online but I'm better live. also, without the proper bankroll to cope with the swings I struggle to keep runs going online. I have to cash out far too much.

When DTD opens, the chance to add live STTs to my earning is something to look forward to, but I'll need to get a roll together before that because I wont be able to subsidise my playing with dealing, as it'll all be self dealt.

[Dingdell]

Well Adam i don't really know what to say here.

Your bankroll is that thin, and you rely on it to feed you and your family!

All the other advice is useless in this thread, my only advice would be to get a job for now, give yourself some stability and less stress! Then down the line when you have enough cash you can go back to playing the game.

I agree - with that on your mind you are never going to make the right calls at the right time.

I know a well known player who is always broke and although a good player, because his life depends on every game, he gives himself extra pressure and makes some absolutely terrible calls when he knows he is beat - but he starts to believe in the poker fairy, luck anything.

[Royal Flush]

a job is sometimes tempting, but the easy way out. I have the shirt making equipment, the stock and gradually increasing orders. the shirts company is designed to pay the bills. just a case of survival until then.

I do play online but I'm better live. also, without the proper bankroll to cope with the swings I struggle to keep runs going online. I have to cash out far too much.

When DTD opens, the chance to add live STTs to my earning is something to look forward to, but I'll need to get a roll together before that because I wont be able to subsidise my playing with dealing, as it'll all be self dealt.

Fair do's i hope the shirts really take off.

How much better live are you than online? Like Rob says you can have a big edge live and still only be making £5/hr if online your edge was half that you could play 5x as many games a night and make more profit! (with less variance!)

Sounds like DTD will be just the thing for you.

[AdamM]

I have the same problem online as a few others mentioned on another thread yesterday. I loose focus online much easier than live. My people reading skills are coming along much faster than my technical game so much of my advantage is lost online. That's not to say I dont feel my technical game isnt improving, it's just not the strongest part of my overall game. In the tourneys I'm playing live at least 50% of the field are REALLY bad. there are plenty of players who know what they're doing but they're regular faces and you get to know their games pretty well.

Online I've always concentrated on STTs but the trouble is the baby rarely gives me a straight hour to play one, and one isnt much of a session anyway. So I've been dipping my toes into cash. I've only started small $.25/$.50 initially and I'm having some decent sessions. but I'm having to cash out as I go because of the live drought I've been talking about. when I do get a long session, like this afternoon for example, I've decided to concentrate on the 180 seat STTs on stars. I made two finals yesterday but blew up with 6 left both times. not outdraws, just misreads that Im sure Id have got right live. I'm starting with the $4 ones but I'll be onto the $20 a soon as I can.