Footie Poll

[kinboshi]

I think Man Utd would have rather win the Champions League. Given the size of club and the financial resources they have,  to have only ever won the European Cup twice (that's the same number of times as Nottingham Forest!!) is a poor return.

Liverpool on the other hand have won the Big Cup 5 times and even got one to keep forever. They have not won the league in 17 years and Man Utd are closing in on their record of Championships. Liverpool need to start winning the league again.

So in a bizarre way I think Man Utd & Liverpool wouldn't mind swapping places this season

I think you're right here.

[AdamM]

that suprises me from a Liverpool fan. goes to show maybe. Liverpool have never won the premiership so they want it BAD. Man Utd have only one recent(ish) win and would dearly like more.

We'd swap you for a couple of years

We've won the league more times than anyone.  Just because Sky came in and it was renamed doesn't mean that football was only invented when Sky got involved - yes we'd like to win the league, but to say we've never won the Premiership is irrelevant - it's an arbitrary distinction that's been put in place.

Of course the league is the bread and butter.  The European Cup has always been up there with the league, but it's the icing on the cake.  The cake has always been the league. 

In saying that, winning a 6th European Cup will make up for our deficit in the league this year, as long as we're competing over the next few seasons.  Also, no matter what the chavski fans say, they'd give up both of their trophies in a flash if they could be played in Athens on Wednesday.

I'd love Man Utds main competition in the league to be liverpool. when I was 10 I became aware you had to "have a team" I'd just moved to a new area and new school and the two new friends I made were Man Utd. EVERYONE ELSE was Liverpool because in 1983 they were head and shoulders above the rest.

I have to disagree with what you're saying about only the name of the league changing. winning the premiership is different to winning the old 1st division. you talk about skys involvement being a bad thing but the extra money in the game and the added world wide exposure has made it 'arguably' the best league in the world. Liverpool are within reach of challenging for the premiership. roll on August.

[JungleCat03]

As a liverpool fan who's thrilled to be in the champion's league final again, I still think that irrespective of the result against Milan, Man U winning the title is the achievement of the season.

Chelsea have dominated the last 2 years in the league, wiping the floor with every team including Man U. And this season they added Ballack, Shevchenko and Cole to the mix!

Pre-season, I couldn't foresee anyone getting past them again and to be fair probably only the most ardent Man U fans thought differently.

But Man U did get past them, by playing really great, attacking football and despite Drogba having the season of his career for chelsea. Ronaldo has obviously been a revelation this season, following up his world cup acclaim with a lot of match winning performances, and a guy who has spent his career out of the spotlight despite clearly being one of the best midfielders in the world, Paul Scholes, has shown England just how much they miss his vision and goals at international level. Throw in Rooney's skill and the squad's togetherness and Man U have been the package this season.

They'll be jealous as hell if Liverpool pick up their 6th CL/EC but I suspect that 95% of scouse fans would swap it for the league and I'm certain that benitez would.

[kinboshi]

that suprises me from a Liverpool fan. goes to show maybe. Liverpool have never won the premiership so they want it BAD. Man Utd have only one recent(ish) win and would dearly like more.

We'd swap you for a couple of years

We've won the league more times than anyone.  Just because Sky came in and it was renamed doesn't mean that football was only invented when Sky got involved - yes we'd like to win the league, but to say we've never won the Premiership is irrelevant - it's an arbitrary distinction that's been put in place.

Of course the league is the bread and butter.  The European Cup has always been up there with the league, but it's the icing on the cake.  The cake has always been the league. 

In saying that, winning a 6th European Cup will make up for our deficit in the league this year, as long as we're competing over the next few seasons.  Also, no matter what the chavski fans say, they'd give up both of their trophies in a flash if they could be played in Athens on Wednesday.

I'd love Man Utds main competition in the league to be liverpool. when I was 10 I became aware you had to "have a team" I'd just moved to a new area and new school and the two new friends I made were Man Utd. EVERYONE ELSE was Liverpool because in 1983 they were head and shoulders above the rest.

I have to disagree with what you're saying about only the name of the league changing. winning the premiership is different to winning the old 1st division. you talk about skys involvement being a bad thing but the extra money in the game and the added world wide exposure has made it 'arguably' the best league in the world. Liverpool are within reach of challenging for the premiership. roll on August.

In the early/mid 80s the English Division 1 was the best league in the world, and the teams at the top were the best in Europe.

I never said Sky's involvement was a good or a bad thing - just that football did exist before then.

[AdamM]

cool. agree with every word of that.

Still think that winning the premiership now is a bigger achievement now than 10 years ago, and a bigger achievement than the old 1st division. I'm not knocking Liverpools domination in the old league. I'm sure the aspiration to catch up and overtake Liverpool was a huge factor in Man Utds domination in the 90's Chelsea and Arsenal have both claimed to be at the beginning of a decade of domination but it's not happened.

Junglecat, I was telling people pre season I was sure we were going to win the league this year. I never thought it'd be a walk over and it certainly wasn't. at the start of the season I would have been very suprised to get a cup too but in the end I thought FA cup would be captured too. chelsea deserved more than just league cup out of the season.

i think Man Utd league / Chelsea cup double / Liverpool Champions league runners up would be a fair representation of the seasons performances but I hope Liverpool get more than they deserve and win it. Think I'll be going draw/AC if I can get 3/1 though, Liverpool/AC is tempting too

[CrestOfaWave]

If Liverpool win you have to give them the biggest amount of credit. ( Benitez is a wily man who picked up most of his tips whilst working in the tapas bar during his holiday breaks.) On a serious note he used his squad to the best effect and targetted the Champions League once the league was beyond their reach.

His squad rotation cost us 5th place and possibly Shef Utds position in the league - but Liverpool have benefitted from these decisions and they are getting more European kudos than United.

gl to them - all my family are reds so will be watching with gritted smile if they win and i start hearing we won it 6 times.

[Eck]

1977 Liverpool                                                            OLD 1ST DIVISION
1978 Liverpool                                                             OLD 1ST DIVISION ..................
1979 Nottingham Forest
1980 Nottingham Forest
1981 Liverpool
1982 Aston Villa
1983 Hamburg
1984 Liverpool                                                          OLD 1ST DIVISION
1985 Juventus 1 v 0 Liverpool   
1986 Steaua Bucharest
1987 Porto
1988 PSV Eindhoven
1989 AC Milan
1990 AC Milan
1991 Red Star Belgrade
1992 Barcelona
1993 Marseille 1 v 0 AC Milan (Subsequently stripped title)       PREMIERSHIP BEGINS ( I THINK)
1994 AC Milan
1995 Ajax
1996 Juventus
1997 Borussia Dortmund
1998 Real Madrid
1999 Manchester United
2000 Real Madrid
2001 Bayern Munich 
2002 Real Madrid
2003 AC Milan
2004 FC Porto
2005 Liverpool
2006 Barcelona

Still think that winning the premiership now is a bigger achievementthan the old 1st division?

I have to disagree with what you're saying about only the name of the league changing. winning the premiership is different to winning the old 1st division. you talk about skys involvement being a bad thing but the extra money in the game and the added world wide exposure has made it 'arguably' the best league in the world.

Don't think I or the facts can agree with you the Sky league may have more money than any other but it hasn't produced the best football teams

[LeKnave]

1999 Manchester United

i was there, about 12, partying it up in the nou camp. holla.

[JungleCat03]

1977 Liverpool                                                            OLD 1ST DIVISION
1978 Liverpool                                                             OLD 1ST DIVISION ..................
1979 Nottingham Forest
1980 Nottingham Forest
1981 Liverpool
1982 Aston Villa
1983 Hamburg
1984 Liverpool                                                          OLD 1ST DIVISION
1985 Juventus 1 v 0 Liverpool   
1986 Steaua Bucharest
1987 Porto
1988 PSV Eindhoven
1989 AC Milan
1990 AC Milan
1991 Red Star Belgrade
1992 Barcelona
1993 Marseille 1 v 0 AC Milan (Subsequently stripped title)       PREMIERSHIP BEGINS ( I THINK)
1994 AC Milan
1995 Ajax
1996 Juventus
1997 Borussia Dortmund
1998 Real Madrid
1999 Manchester United
2000 Real Madrid
2001 Bayern Munich 
2002 Real Madrid
2003 AC Milan
2004 FC Porto
2005 Liverpool
2006 Barcelona

Still think that winning the premiership now is a bigger achievementthan the old 1st division?

I have to disagree with what you're saying about only the name of the league changing. winning the premiership is different to winning the old 1st division. you talk about skys involvement being a bad thing but the extra money in the game and the added world wide exposure has made it 'arguably' the best league in the world.

Don't think I or the facts can agree with you the Sky league may have more money than any other but it hasn't produced the best football teams

To be fair, i think the lack of european results at the start of the premiership can be partly attributed to the european ban preceding it. It took time for english teams to re-adjust to playing european football but yes, it also coincided with a period where Italian and Spanish teams were very strong.

Milan 88-94 were one of the best club sides of all time and the 4-0 drubbing they gave to an excellent Barca side in the '94 EC final was the most dominant performance in recent times in the EC final. Juventus then took over the mantle with their 3 consecutive finals before the renaissance of Real at the back of the 90's and early naughties where they picked up the trophy 3 times.

There was a lot of rubbish spoken at the inception of the premiership about it being the best league in the world. It saddened me to hear people spouting this crap, when in reality the PL was significantly behind the Italian and in particular Spanish leagues at the time. It just made us English people look stupid claiming to be the best, whilst the Juves, Milans and Madrids effortlessly swept aside English opposition.

I remember this hitting home in 1994 when the double winning, consecutive league winning Man U were leagues ahead of every other English team, but had to play out of their skin to get a home draw against Barca and were demolished 4-0 in the Nou camp by stoichkov and co. The gulf in class was evident for every impartial observer.

Obviously things are different these days and the premiership can rightly claim to be the best league in the world these days with 6 out of the last 12 CL semi finalists being english teams. Long may it continue.....

GO LIVERPOOL..... I'm so excited, I can't wait!

[AdamM]

1977 Liverpool                                                            OLD 1ST DIVISION
1978 Liverpool                                                             OLD 1ST DIVISION ..................
1979 Nottingham Forest
1980 Nottingham Forest
1981 Liverpool
1982 Aston Villa
1983 Hamburg
1984 Liverpool                                                          OLD 1ST DIVISION
1985 Juventus 1 v 0 Liverpool   
1986 Steaua Bucharest
1987 Porto
1988 PSV Eindhoven
1989 AC Milan
1990 AC Milan
1991 Red Star Belgrade
1992 Barcelona
1993 Marseille 1 v 0 AC Milan (Subsequently stripped title)       PREMIERSHIP BEGINS ( I THINK)
1994 AC Milan
1995 Ajax
1996 Juventus
1997 Borussia Dortmund
1998 Real Madrid
1999 Manchester United
2000 Real Madrid
2001 Bayern Munich 
2002 Real Madrid
2003 AC Milan
2004 FC Porto
2005 Liverpool
2006 Barcelona

Still think that winning the premiership now is a bigger achievementthan the old 1st division?

I have to disagree with what you're saying about only the name of the league changing. winning the premiership is different to winning the old 1st division. you talk about skys involvement being a bad thing but the extra money in the game and the added world wide exposure has made it 'arguably' the best league in the world.

Don't think I or the facts can agree with you the Sky league may have more money than any other but it hasn't produced the best football teams

wouldnt you say the premierships top 4 were comfortably in Europes top dozen.

No one country has dominated that list and I think there are other measures of a leagues strength than Champions league WINNERS.

[Eck]

I agree the top 4 in England a match for most of the teams in europe nowadays but i would say that has only been the case for the last 3/4 years prior to that the english league was no match for Spanish/Italian/German leagues.

I don't believe it is the strongest "league" in depth but that is an impossible topic to resolve. I agree also CL winners may not be the best guide to overall league strength I just produced that wee table as a point for duscussion and to stop me getting silly with AQ sooted in the DTD $6k, worked to a point got to the FT 

Anyway C'mon Liverpool - makes me feel like a boy again Liverpool were always in the eurpoean cup final when i was young.

[The Baron]

I'm in agreement with JC on this.

It's harsh to think the Premiership was not as important as the old League Title just because in the 90's the sides did f'all in Europe. Most of that was becuase of the ban on English clubs. Hardly any foreign players were here after the ban ended and our football suffered. I still remember the excitement it caused when names like Klinsmann first came here.

However, I would say that the Premiership in the early/mid 90's was won at a lower standard than in the early/mid 80's or today. United had little competition. They won at a canter a lot of the time. Yes they were the best side by a mile, but back then you could win a league with 7 or 8 defeates.

In the early 80's there were a lot of great sides to beat. Villa, Everton, Liverpool and Forest to name a few.

Three years ago Arsenal went unbeaten. The season after Chelsea lost one game. So the bar has been raised again. Probably higher than ever. This is why United's triumph now means more then it ever did under Fergie IMO.

His previous opposition at the big clubs were managers like Keegan, Evans, Rioch etc. Now he faces some of the world's best in Mourinho, Wenger, Benitez as well as good young managers like Jol.

[Acidmouse]

It's rather difficult to compare winning the champions league to 20 years ago anyway. When only the league winners actually competed. Making to top 3/4 in the league opens the way for mediocre teams to have a good run in Europe without being that great.

FFS Leeds even made the semi's of Europe not so many moons ago.

[kinboshi]

FFS Leeds even made the semi's of Europe not so many moons ago.

...and were looking good enough to win it as well.

[AdamM]

thats right, Man Utd set the bar when the prem began, with the treble capping that era. then arsenals unbeaten run and double double pushed the envelope even further.

Paid for it or not, Cheleas have been dominant last couple of years.

Hopefuly Utd can push it even further for a few seasons. back to back trebles maybe?