just wondering

[ACE2M]

You lose most of your chips and it leaves you with 1 1/2 bb and you are UTG next hand, you get dealt 72os will you stick it in or wait for the BB?

[NoflopsHomer]

Wait.

[TightEnd]

stick it in and try and play it against as many oppos as possible, rather than take a random hand against a few/one opponent(s) next hand!

[The Baron]

Stick it in. I wouldn't have even looked to avoid this problem.

[ACE2M]

mmm.

My thinking is to stick it in hope for a couple of limpers then a re raise all in from later postion getting me great odds on my little stack heads up, amazing how often this happens. But playing with some very decent players a while ago and this problem cropped up for one of them and he folded insisting he was right to do so even though a couple of us argued it for a while (good nature discussion).

[NoflopsHomer]

mmm.

My thinking is to stick it in hope for a couple of limpers then a re raise all in from later postion getting me great odds on my little stack heads up, amazing how often this happens. But playing with some very decent players a while ago and this problem cropped up for one of them and he folded insisting he was right to do so even though a couple of us argued it for a while (good nature discussion).

I'm sure Sklansky argues this point in Tournament Poker for Advanced Players.

"It is not correct to take a bad bet now to avoid a worse bet later, if today's bet is almost as bad."

[Bongo]

Yes he does.

I don't think moving in now makes any difference to whether the pot will be played multiway or not compared to the next hand. Even if it does get multiway you have pretty much the worst hand you could have in a multiway pot.

I wait and shove them in on the next hand.

[SupaMonkey]

I wait.

@Noflopshomer, surely you can't have a worse bet tomorrow so what is the point of shoving you stack in now? (you are correct sklansky says that, but i disagree with him).

@Bongo, I think people may be reluctant to play when they know they have to show their cards if they make it to the river. So i think there will be fewer players in the pot when you are in the BB.

[NoflopsHomer]

I wait.

@Noflopshomer, surely you can't have a worse bet tomorrow so what is the point of shoving you stack in now? (you are correct sklansky says that, but i disagree with him).

Errr.... that's my point for waiting.

[SupaMonkey]

Yea sorry, i missed that.

[Bongo]

@Bongo, I think people may be reluctant to play when they know they have to show their cards if they make it to the river. So i think there will be fewer players in the pot when you are in the BB.

If you go all in in this hand first to speak then they will have to show their hands just as much as they would on your BB...

[Highstack]

I wait. The chances are that I will lose anyway, but I know my hand next time is likely to be better. If you give me 87 or even K2, then I am in, but the utg option is exactly that - an option. If its Q7 or better go for it, if it isnt then why not wait one more?

[SupaMonkey]

@Bongo

Fair point,

For some reason i can just see an up front limp (cos it's hardly a raise) creating a family pot more than i can see a family pot being created when you are in the BB. Maybe it's because people won't take your raise seriously and call you. I think that if you are in the BB and someone raises, their raise is likely to be taken more seriously.

[Highstack]

What I would also add is that if I am in late position and utg is all in for 1.5bb and the rest of the table has not raised, then I am raising with atc. I could put a post it note over my screen and still raise!

I am now getting at least 2/1 on my money against a likely weak holding when (if) the blinds pass. Even if it doesn't get through I  have position post flop.

[totalise]

If I were to play a  hand from this dire position utg, limping is easily the best option... it is so transparent, and you want it to be transparent, as there is a high chance you will get protection from a back-raise somewhere and get great odds from someone who is raising with any reasonable hand because THEY want the good odds on their hand as well....

...hmm, lets say you are on the button with the table covered, and the short-stack does this utg and gets 2 or 3 callers, whats the minimum hand you would raise/jam with in this spot? My range would be super-wide, close to the any-two range

I just saw highstack say atc which i first thought was ace ten of clubs heh, seems like it means any two cards, which is pretty close to my range as well


Saying all that, I'd probably wait.. especially if its late in the tourney, as people are less likely to limp along to knock me out because the blinds-->stack ratio is normally quite shallow at that stage, so you are prolly gonna get about the same odds if you wait one hand, and your random hand next hand is gonna be better then 2/7os about 99% of the time