Piano Found at top of Ben Nevis ( 3 days old )

[ifm]

i prefer bacon beer myself........

[Sark79]

I know Red. No worries 

Ehhh,  I am not sure how it is brewed. I am more of a drinker  .

  I went to a brewery(sp?) when I was about 20.  To be honest, I wanted to be at the bike race along the road, but to keep the peace with my ex-girlfriends family, I opted for the Beer factory tour.  I had a long talk with one of the guys working there about different types of beers. He said that Becks was a beer that was completely animal friendly.  There was a common Scottish beer that wasn't.  I have read on a few sites that I sometimes visit that most foods and drinks are now going down the animal friendly route and doing away with animal fats/ gelatin, etc.  Vegetable fats and natural herbs, etc are being used in there place.

[AdamM]

Wow, what a thread to find on a poker forum!

On the subject of red squirrels, I believe everything in our power should be done to protect them.  The Isle of Wight thankfully has a large healthy population and the local council work hard to keep it that way.  Mans intervention is what puts many of these threatened species at risks in the first place, and as such we should be responsible for protecting as best we can.

Adam, no offence, but what an arrogant view to take!  Humans have the ability to help other species, we do so much damage to the planet that it is our responsibility to preserve whenever possible ( it’s called being Humane?) Yes, it’s impossible to save everything, which does not mean that we shouldn’t try to.  You refer to survival of the fittest actually meaning “most appropriate (funny enough, Hitler had the same view, but that is a whole new topic) who deems what is most appropriate?

We introduce a species to a habitat, or dramatically change animal’s surroundings, sit back and watch the results.  Many times it will have a damaging consequence on the natural habitants, do we leave the mistake and see who lives?  Or should we try to correct what we have done.

We have the ability to conserve, we should.

You misunderstand a couple of key points in my stance.

firstly It's not arrogant. quite the opposite, its super-humble. I don't think we're anymore important or deserving than any other species. I believe looking at ourselves as keepers of the planet for the planets sake is arrogant. It makes sense to protect our environment. we have to live here after all.

Survival of the fittest and most appropriate; NO ONE DECIDES. that's the natural selection part. it's not up to us or a god to decide what species should and shouldn't survive. If we kill off wasps, rats or slugs is that worse than killing off Tigers, Pandas or Grey Squirells? (this has nothing to do with Hitler, stay on the topic )

Finaly, on your last comment. we can't damage the planet. not permanently anyway. we've only been here a blink of an eye and long after we're gone the planet and whatever life there is on it will be just fine. The geological history of this planet is amazing. when the comet hit and the dinasaurs bit the dust it was something like 97% of ALL LIFE that was wiped out, plants, animals and bacteria. the planet survived. the polls have flipped back and forth which would have had cataastrophic effects on life. the atmophere has been poisonous methane based and probably will be again in the future.

When you look at the BIG picture. the squirells don't matter and nor do we. Jeez, now I feel REALLY REALLY SMALL.

one of the most eye opening books I ever read was "The Science Of Discworld" by Terry Pratchet. it was co written with a couple of scientists and alternates between Discworld fiction and the history of the universe and of Earth. I thouroughly recommend it.

[AdamM]

The whole killing for pleasure thing caught my eye though, cats are famous for this and also killer whales (seals), also lions will kill cheetahs and their cubs on sight to prevent them taking their prey.
Do we prevent this?

that's my point about hunting. we're more developed than other creatures. Hunting for sport makes me see the animal in us and it's ugly. I was watching a documentary on David Attenborough and he showed a clip of Chimps hunting Monkeys in packs. they do eat it but only really at an after-thought. they don't get anymore than a nibble each out of it, it seems like entertainment for them.

[Sark79]

The whole killing for pleasure thing caught my eye though, cats are famous for this and also killer whales (seals), also lions will kill cheetahs and their cubs on sight to prevent them taking their prey.
Do we prevent this?

that's my point about hunting. we're more developed than other creatures. Hunting for sport makes me see the animal in us and it's ugly. I was watching a documentary on David Attenborough and he showed a clip of Chimps hunting Monkeys in packs. they do eat it but only really at an after-thought. they don't get anymore than a nibble each out of it, it seems like entertainment for them.

Better not let matt see this post mate.

[AdamM]

lol

yeah, look out Matt, Chimps hunt and kill monkeys for fun, tearing them limb from limb while they are still alive.

[thetank]

Conservation is ok in my book when it comes to breeding threatened species in captivity, or similar methods. When it comes to messing with their natural competitors, no thakyou very much. If theres a way to conserve the red squirrel without messing with the grey squirrel then I'm all for it.

By eliminating, or simply drastically decreasing the numbers of one species we don't like. We may affect the population of another species. Perhaps a useful species, that we like to eat, will decrease in numbers. Or perhaps a species that is a big pest will incease in number.

Every species in the ecosystem depends on every other species. If we start messing with that, by killing off large groups of animals we don't like. We have no idea what will happen.
Not just species of animal and insect, which Sark wil survive without, but species of plant too. They're all interdependant on each other.

[thetank]

lol

yeah, look out Matt, Chimps hunt and kill monkeys for fun, tearing them limb from limb while they are still alive.

I just watched Planet of the Apes (the old ones) where the chimpanzees were quite insistant that "ape does not kill ape"

David Attenborough has just buggered up a lot of the important symbolism in that film. 

[ifm]

I think the key point with the squirrels is that by culling the greys you save the reds and neither become extinct (though extinct is not the right word as there must be some elsewhere in the world).
Whereby leaving it as is, you sign the death warrant for the reds.

[Ginger]

Conservation is ok in my book when it comes to breeding threatened species in captivity, or similar methods. When it comes to messing with their natural competitors, no thakyou very much. If theres a way to conserve the red squirrel without messing with the grey squirrel then I'm all for it.

By eliminating, or simply drastically decreasing the numbers of one species we don't like. We may affect the population of another species. Perhaps a useful species, that we like to eat, will decrease in numbers. Or perhaps a species that is a big pest will incease in number.

Every species in the ecosystem depends on every other species. If we start messing with that, by killing off large groups of animals we don't like. We have no idea what will happen.
Not just species of animal and insect, which Sark wil survive without, but species of plant too. They're all interdependant on each other.

Think you may have missed the point Tank, that WE introduced grey squirrels to this country, they are not "natural competitors" as they should never been here in the first place.

[Royal Flush]

"we need the wood for something else"......

You are not serious, are you Flushy? It's OK to destroy a rainforest because we need the wood?

It's nature at work.

[Ginger]

"we need the wood for something else"......

You are not serious, are you Flushy? It's OK to destroy a rainforest because we need the wood?

It's nature at work.

Are you serious?

[brad.strider]

i think the cull is a necessary evil, but it has nothing to do with any god.i have no more right to oxygen than any rabbit or dragon fly.and the only person/people/god i serve are my family and friends and sometime even strangers

[tikay]

"we need the wood for something else"......

You are not serious, are you Flushy? It's OK to destroy a rainforest because we need the wood?

It's nature at work.

Well, I don't think we would ever agree on that. I know the point you are making, but I would really struggle to accept it, ever.

[Royal Flush]

"we need the wood for something else"......

You are not serious, are you Flushy? It's OK to destroy a rainforest because we need the wood?

It's nature at work.

Well, I don't think we would ever agree on that. I know the point you are making, but I would really struggle to accept it, ever.

By trying to stop people destroying the rainforrests you are interfering