AA question for you

[elblondie]

Ok how about this one...should I have kept my customer and taken down a smaller pot ?

Boyles Irish Open this weekend 3000 euro buy-in
I have 17,000 chips, my opponent has about 30k and the average stack is around 24k
Young Thomas from Norway (who won the Masterclassics main event last year) is laughing at me. No one wants to play a pot with me. In the previous hour they have all passed to my Big Blind 3 times. he keeps saying 'respect' and laughing in my face.
Anyways I pick up the dreaded boots. A A in mid position.
blinds are 300/600 and player x limps for 600
Now I don't want to play AA against 4 or 5 limpers but would like to keep my customer (the limper)
So I make it just 2000 to play.
Everyone passes and my limper/customer/player x calls.
there is about 5300 in the pot (incl. some running antes)
the flop is 2 4 8 off suit
and my opponent leads out for 3600 (which appears to be quite a common bluff move in Dublin)
I stare at him and he is terrified. If my instincts are right he has nothing....
So what do I do ??
Do I weak call and hope he bets again on the turn ?
Or do I pick up the pot here and now by moving all-in?

[ifm]

Well having seen you play aces like this before i'd say you flat called and got them in on the river, crossed your fingers and hoped he hadn't hit his second pair!!
I call and try to get them in on the turn depending on how scary the card is..........

[TightEnd]

dave, posted this on one of the AA cracked threads, but I took a middle management decision and split the boss' post to form a new hand analysis thread

he needs the advice everyone, he's only a newbie,  go on now.....
 

[bhoywonder]

errrrr

i dont think you are gonna lay down if your next raise is re-raised back at you,its a great flop and I'm assuming all your chips are going in if this is the case....

so in order to halt the possible outdraw....did you go all in right now?

If you read him correctly (fear) then he is behind,

but total guesswork here,did u get all ur chips in after he re-raised back at you for him to outdraw you on the river with the third queen or king giving him the lucky set?with his holding of QQ or KK?

[TightEnd]

You didn't move my reply though

thx for the heads up, you replied while I was moving stuff, cheers

[elblondie]

dave, posted this on one of the AA cracked threads, but I took a middle management decision and split the boss' post to form a new hand analysis thread
he needs the advice everyone, he's only a newbie,  go on now.....

I consider my self reprimanded
 

[elblondie]

errrrr
but total guesswork here,did u get all ur chips in after he re-raised back at you for him to outdraw you on the river with the third queen or king giving him the lucky set?with his holding of QQ or KK?

If I was to read my opponent for pocket Kings, Queens or any over pair, I would re-raise back for a totally different reason.
Not because I was scared of the out draw.
I would re-raise back because the turn may scare my opponent and stop him from putting his chips in. Whereas a wear re-raise on the flop will usually be pounced upon by another overpair in this coupe and the lot will normally go in.

[TightEnd]

reprimanded? absolutely now  

 

[elblondie]

Well having seen you play aces like this before i'd say you flat called and got them in on the river, crossed your fingers and hoped he hadn't hit his second pair!!
I call and try to get them in on the turn depending on how scary the card is..........

thats scarey...where did you see me do this ?

[elblondie]

whoops...my plane has been called...will answer in a few hours

[ifm]

Well having seen you play aces like this before i'd say you flat called and got them in on the river, crossed your fingers and hoped he hadn't hit his second pair!!
I call and try to get them in on the turn depending on how scary the card is..........

thats scarey...where did you see me do this ?

In the £500 at Walsall January last year, dunno if you remember but Simon Nowab won it in the end.

[lazaroonie]

errrrr

i dont think you are gonna lay down if your next raise is re-raised back at you,its a great flop and I'm assuming all your chips are going in if this is the case....

so in order to halt the possible outdraw....did you go all in right now?

If you read him correctly (fear) then he is behind,

but total guesswork here,did u get all ur chips in after he re-raised back at you for him to outdraw you on the river with the third queen or king giving him the lucky set?with his holding of QQ or KK?

Obviously not knowing the player, but I would find it hard to put him on a big pair - He flat called from early position, and the smooth called a Raise out of position. In my (limited) experience people do sometimes flat call from early with big pairs, but the re-raise the raiser preflop, in the hope to take the hand down then, so they are not playing post flop from out of position.

I could probably put him on any pair from 10's down to 4's , which is the real worry if he has already tripped up on the flop, but in that case why play it so fast post flop. A check is more likely, unless he reads you (correctly) for a big overpair.

So after all that, I think I am thining he is more likely not to have trips, (maybe a pair of 9's), and he thinks he is good. But I am happy to take the pot down at this point, because I think you have maximised your proft already.

[bolt pp]

I'm flat calling here.

I think the most important factor is the read you had on the guy.

If you really fancy he's got nothing its a bit of a  dwell up and flat call, whereas if you think he's got an over pair i'd be re raising so as to get all in with the guy there and then, like you say a lot of cards can scare jj on the turn

If he makes a strong bet on the turn with another rag fallen then i would re-raise if i was now sure he had a jj, qq, type hand, very difficult for him to get away from it now.

[totalise]

fold

Mike Caro says in his seminal work that weak is strong, so if he is looking petrified, he clearly has top set making this an obligatory pass

Edited coz I dint mean to hit post with just that in it

Anyways, if you think he has nothing, then you likely dont get any more out of him anyways, so just go ahead and raise here.. you say they are petrified of you (lol) so do players double barrel into people they are scared of with pure filth?

maybe he has JJ and maybe he folds, but your begging letter raise preflop should tip him off to an extent that you have something pretty good. I think in these spots, you are basically exposing your stack for pretty much zero if you just call here, as i think in these spots (in general)  people put nothing else in the pot unless they improve to a hand that has AA beat, so yu are trapping urself

you could just mini raise, hoping he think thats weak as opposed to weak-calling, at least it avoids all the above, and gives him a chance to put in the 3-bet

My preference is : Raise > Call > Fold

[Royal Flush]

I think stack size is crucial here, you are below average and are in a 5300 pot with 15k back. When he leads out for 3600 this swells the pot to just under 9k, if you call then its a 12k pot and you have 12k back, it's hard to not see that setting of the alarm bells in his head that you must have something! And if you do flat call are you then ever going to pass for a bet on the turn?

I am trying to get all my chips into this pot, like i said before i think a bluff on the turn here from him would be stupid, however he may have 99/TT etc which he will still lead the turn. As a previous poster said he is giving you action with these hands anyway. So for that reason i think raise is the optimum move here, either he passes his KJos or he ships it in, i don't mind which he does either!