Bad call?

[Claw75]

I can't help thinking I should have got out of this one.  It was a tough call for me pre-flop - should I have folded?  Post flop,was this the right play?  Any opinions, as always, gratefully received.


MTT Table 1 9475033-150 Holdem No Limit 1,200/2,400
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : Hand Start.
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : Seat 1 : Claw75 has $30,463
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has $13,980
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : Seat 5 : fossie72 has $41,430
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : Seat 6 : mikegamblz has $19,120
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : Seat 9 : steeley68 has $25,990
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : steeley68 is the dealer.
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : Claw75 posted small blind.
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : MissHoolie posted big blind.
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : Game [150] started with 5 players.
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jun 5 01:26:37] : Seat 1 : Claw75 has
[Jun 5 01:26:42] : fossie72 called 2,400 and raised 2,400
[Jun 5 01:26:45] : mikegamblz folded.
[Jun 5 01:26:45] : steeley68 folded.
[Jun 5 01:26:46] : Claw75 called 3,600
[Jun 5 01:26:49] : Stakes: 1,200/2,400 Current level: 11 Level up in: 8 min. Break in: 30 min. Players : 10
[Jun 5 01:26:51] : MissHoolie called 2,400 and raised 9,180 and is All-in
[Jun 5 01:26:55] : fossie72 called 9,180
[Jun 5 01:27:02] : Claw75 : ooo errr
[Jun 5 01:27:03] : MissHoolie : here goes
[Jun 5 01:27:05] : Claw75 called 9,180
[Jun 5 01:27:06] : Dealing flop.
[Jun 5 01:27:06] : Board cards [ ]
[Jun 5 01:27:08] : Claw75 bet 16,483 and is All-in
[Jun 5 01:27:09] : Stakes: 1,200/2,400 Current level: 11 Level up in: 7 min. Break in: 29 min. Players : 10
[Jun 5 01:27:10] : fossie72 called 16,483
[Jun 5 01:27:11] : Showdown!
[Jun 5 01:27:11] : Seat 1 : Claw75 has
[Jun 5 01:27:13] : Seat 1 : Claw75 has
[Jun 5 01:27:13] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jun 5 01:27:13] : Seat 5 : fossie72 has As
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : Board cards [ ]
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : Seat 1 : Claw75 has
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : Claw75 has Two Pair: Kings and Queens
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : Seat 5 : fossie72 has As
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : fossie72 has Two Pair: Aces and 10s
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : fossie72 wins 32,966 with Two Pair: Aces and 10s
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : MissHoolie has Two Pair: 10s and
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : Seat 5 : fossie72 has As
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : fossie72 has Two Pair: Aces and 10s
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : Seat 1 : Claw75 has
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : Claw75 has Two Pair: Kings and Queens
[Jun 5 01:27:19] : fossie72 wins 41,940 with Two Pair: Aces and 10s
[Jun 5 01:27:25] : steeley68 : ahhh
[Jun 5 01:27:29] : fossie72 : ul
[Jun 5 01:27:29] : Stakes: 1,200/2,400 Current level: 11 Level up in: 7 min. Break in: 29 min. Players : 10
[Jun 5 01:27:30] : MissHoolie : vn gg all
[Jun 5 01:27:33] : steeley68 : ul claw, hoolie
[Jun 5 01:27:34] : Hand is over.

[stallyon]

MissHoolie is the shortest stack so would insta put MissHoolie on a pair not wanting to be called and since fossie72 called then chances are he has a high pair or A-rag in which case a flopped ace and your beat. personally i'd have folded and let them fight between themselves.

[Claw75]

cheers Stallyon - just what I thought with hindsight.  I think when I'm in that 'should i, shouldn't i' state of mind whether to call a raise pre-flop I should trust my instincts a bit more - it was an uncomfortable call.

However, not dwelling on this too much as I've just had my first ever MTT win so am in high spirits!!! 

[Claw75]

anyone else got any comments/criticisms of this hand?

[NoflopsHomer]

Personally, as a rule, I never call raises with KQ unless it's BSB action and even then I may re-raise versus a tricky opponent, calling the intial raise here means you'll only have 10 BB's left and you'll be first to act on the flop and any non-KQ flop you're struggling. The minimum raise also looks dodgy, passing preflop is the best option I think.

[Wardonkey]

The initial call is not too bad, but after Misshoolie pushes in and Fossie flat calls I think you should pass.

Think of it from Fossies point of view, he min raises to try and draw and catch one of the blinds, one tight player flat calls and another, albeit shortstacked, pushes in. If Fossie was on the steal then he passes. If he has a mid pair or AK then he pushes in to force you out of the pot. His flat call is designed to give you enticing odds to call. The only hands that are strong enough to play this way are AA and possibly KK.

[elblondie]

A couple of standard rules for MTTs.
a) It's ok to raise with KQ but its bad play to call raises with KQ. There aren't any hands that you have dominated. (assuming that opponents are not raising Q10). You can get into a lot of trouble against the most commonly raised hands AA, KK, QQ, but more importantly AK and AQ.
b) in the short handed latter stages and playing 5 handed...raise with any half a hand e.g 78 but (again) don't call raises without the goods. The objective at this stage of the game is to take the blinds uncontested. So the cards are not so important. The second objective is to avoid elimination. So try and pick up uncontested pots. If you are 'calling', the hand will have at least 2 players in it.

[LeKnave]

The main other point to take into account is your position, your the SB so have to act first post flop...if your opponent has a big pair like KK AA or QQ and the flop is Q high and you shoot all in from first position you have no information about his hand apart from when u recieve the call, and at that point theres nothing you can do about it.

Preflop if your going to call KQ from that position the danger bells must have gone off when hoolie moved all in, if fossie calls you know he cant have been on the steal so will almost certainly have KQ dominated...

LeKnave

[ACE2M]

i think the 1st call is ok but not great but the 2nd call is a no no, he clearly wants you in the hand, if he had a middling hand he would try to isolate as you are more than likely to pass after your flat call.

Beware min raises generally but also be aware that a lot of decent online tourney players like to make these min raise steals as it looks so strong and they can get away cheaply if someone wakes up with a real hand and pushes. You tend to find them playing suited connectors, high cards and small pairs with these min raises. Pay attention and you will pick up who is playing like this, they almost always have a decent or large stack to be able to do this. Wait till they do it on your blind and stick it up them with a solid re raise or check raise. I also don't mind flat calling big hands to them in late position and letting them lose a big chunk or a couple of big chunks on the flop with continuation bets etc. Always a bit dodgy as sometimes they hit, but thats the chance you take.

[Claw75]

Thanks everyone.  Great advice, as always, and taken on board!