KK live tounament

[this.life.my.cage]

Final table of a MTT. 9 players left and the top 3 get paid.
the blinds are 2000 & 4000
Im currently 2nd in chips with approx. 80,000 and the average is a approx. 40,000

6th hand of the final table and im dealt  in the BB

First 3 players fold and then the chip leader (approx 95000) raises it to 70,000. Remaining players fold.

When we went down to 2 tables, the same player made this kind of raise maybe 3 or 4 times. Each time every player folding. Obviously calling is not an option as ill only have 10,000 back. This is my first final table and would like to make the £ and im almost certain i have the best hand (would he play AA this way?)

is it possible to fold here?

[ifm]

Nobody would fold this, ever!!
If he has aces then he's a fool.

[Josh]

Call, and if he has aces, mug him afterwards, call him a twat and take his wallet.

[M3boy]

Agreed and Agreed

NO WAY can you fold here.

If he has Aces, just smile and politely say "nice hand, well played" - Then mug him outside later! lol

[thetank]

Call call call call call.

He might be a genious, who knows you have KK, coz he saw it in your eyes.

I doubt it though. Call call call

[BigTomatoes]

 100% he does not have aces, just go all in fo 10k more and youll be in great shape to take the chip lead id say at best he has 10 10

[Royal Flush]

Obviously calling is not an option as ill only have 10,000 back.

Thats exactly why i call, then push the flop, you never know he might pass!

[Newportlad]

Please tell us you didn't fold!

Im all in every time in this situation.
If he has AA, then good luck to him (although he's played it badly wrong).

[totalise]

OP,

yes, it is possible to fold here.. just sling your cards in the muck. Should you fold here? nope

I dont really understand why everyone is saying "he played it terribly if he has AA"... a couple of people are saying theres no chance he has AA.. thats kinda the situation you want to be in when you do have AA!!  Also, lets not forget that the average stack is 40k and the BB is 4k, so any hand people are playing is likely going to be all-in preflop,and it apparently encourages more hands to call then if he makes a small raise, in terms of opponent calling ranges.

Naturally getting action here relies on someone behind him finding a hand, but surely its the case that no matter what he raises, the same applies.. and if small bet == big hand and big bet == lesser hand, its perfectly sensible to go the big-bet route when you have a big hand (and naturally, smaller bets when you have lesser hands)

so group, please tell me where my thinking is skewed, and why the big bet is "badly wrong" and why he is "a fool" for playing it like this.. as I just dont get it

best wishes

[Royal Flush]

The gap concept surely dictates that by moving in you seriously limit your action on AA? Especially as the CL.

A short stack may well fold a smaller pair here as he knows he cant win the pot without seeing 5 cards and so opts for the ladder up chance. If the AA had say raised to 10k then now 88 on 40k stack believes he can now win the pot without showing his had.

[totalise]

The gap concept surely dictates that by moving in you seriously limit your action on AA? Especially as the CL


true, but then I think if he raises to 12k or so, it has pretty much the same effect.. unless people with 40k routinely call off almost half their stack and fold on the flop. Its still the gap concept, it just seemingly narrows the gap compared to making a small raise (because he doesn't get credit for having a big hand) My whole point is that action is either going to come or it isn't, no matter what you raise. You think you get more action with a smaller raise, I guess that is true, my point is that the times you DO get action, you win more chips... and I reckon that you get action a pretty similar % of the time no matter what you raise.. so it makes sense to just bet more.

A short stack may well fold a smaller pair here as he knows he cant win the pot without seeing 5 cards and so opts for the ladder up chance. If the AA had say raised to 10k then now 88 on 40k stack believes he can now win the pot without showing his had.

I guess.. weighting this against the liklihood of 88 folding preflop to a small raise because it looks like it wants action, and also because too many scare cards will flop so it just folds.. against 88 "putting him on a weak ace" and making a hero call.. balancing the probabilities 88 calls more in the former and folds more in the latter and overall small raise wins more chips? I'm not so sure.. but then it is live, and I dont play that version. On-line if people are playing 88, they are doing it for their stack if given the chance, so I like to give them the chance. back to the current scenario... we are 9 handed and top 3 get paid, so moving up the ladder where the current spot is zero and the next spot is zero isnt such an equitable dream, and id expect would make people more likely to try and be heros to get chips and make the big money, but I mite be wrong

[Royal Flush]

The gap concept surely dictates that by moving in you seriously limit your action on AA? Especially as the CL


true, but then I think if he raises to 12k or so, it has pretty much the same effect.. unless people with 40k routinely call off almost half their stack and fold on the flop. Its still the gap concept, it just seemingly narrows the gap compared to making a small raise (because he doesn't get credit for having a big hand) My whole point is that action is either going to come or it isn't, no matter what you raise. You think you get more action with a smaller raise, I guess that is true, my point is that the times you DO get action, you win more chips... and I reckon that you get action a pretty similar % of the time no matter what you raise.. so it makes sense to just bet more.

A short stack may well fold a smaller pair here as he knows he cant win the pot without seeing 5 cards and so opts for the ladder up chance. If the AA had say raised to 10k then now 88 on 40k stack believes he can now win the pot without showing his had.

I guess.. weighting this against the liklihood of 88 folding preflop to a small raise because it looks like it wants action, and also because too many scare cards will flop so it just folds.. against 88 "putting him on a weak ace" and making a hero call.. balancing the probabilities 88 calls more in the former and folds more in the latter and overall small raise wins more chips? I'm not so sure.. but then it is live, and I dont play that version. On-line if people are playing 88, they are doing it for their stack if given the chance, so I like to give them the chance. back to the current scenario... we are 9 handed and top 3 get paid, so moving up the ladder where the current spot is zero and the next spot is zero isnt such an equitable dream, and id expect would make people more likely to try and be heros to get chips and make the big money, but I mite be wrong

You a right, i didnt see that its top 3 paid. I am still not convinced though, if i am sat there with 88 i am not calling for all my chips, however if someone makes a raise and it leaves enough room for them to fold, then i am going over the top.

[Royal Flush]

You also say that when you do get action, its for more chips, if i am playing against the CL's raise, i am doing it with a re-raise so i dont think thats quite true! Any action he is getting will be all in.

[this.life.my.cage]

i thought about it for about 30 seconds. Decided if he had  AA good luck to him. I re-raised all in, he muttered something about being behind and might aswell call.

he had  . Q high flop and another on the turn and i was out.

[GlasgowBandit]

i thought about it for about 30 seconds. Decided if he had  AA good luck to him. I re-raised all in, he muttered something about being behind and might aswell call.

he had  . Q high flop and another on the turn and i was out.

UL mate you got your chips in with the best hand.  There is not really much more you can do.