Re: Should I pass?

[clayftknight]

Do the math Josh.

Even though it made royal cry I'm sure he understands why you have to fold here.

[clayftknight]

You may feel that playing the KK here is just being fearless.
in fact if you run the numbers it is a losing play.

[Royal Flush]

Do the math Josh.

Even though it made royal cry I'm sure he understands why you have to fold here.

Noooo i think its a horrible pass! Your 83% against a random hand. Stick it in!

[Jim-D]

thats 3 pre flop passes of KK in just over a week by blondes...........has this place gone MAD!!!!!!!!

[Tonji]

thats 3 pre flop passes of KK in just over a week by blondes...........has this place gone MAD!!!!!!!!

make that 4 jim, I folded KK to-day (mis-click)  madness

[clayftknight]

83% is enough for you?
Doing the math must include the payouts

[Royal Flush]

This is stars so you have running ante's of i would imagine 100 on 1k-2k.

So you push with KK into the pot and the BB calls you....there is 900+1000+2000+1900 in the pot for your 3900 (of course he might fold, he may well have ticked check fold but lets ignore that)

83% of the time you will have 9700 after this hand!!

17% of the time you will be out getting 0.

With 9700 you now have folding equity and can increase your raising range of hands. With 3900 in every pot pre flop it will only take you 1 or 2 spots to get up to a decent sized stack that will enable you to double into contention! Given the first prize of this is i believe something around 150k+? Its mad to pass.

I also dont see the assured 600th place logic when you fold either. In a few hands time you will be posting 3k of your 3.9k, throw in 100 a hand on ante's and you only have 9 hands left till you are all in!

[WellChief]

Push is fine with JJ, no way can you pass. Folding KK in that situation is ridiculous, shows your playing outwith your bankroll.

[clayftknight]

It is 1/50th of my bankroll.

folding does assure me of $400.
I have monied in this event many times so I know how quick they fall.
Getting to 9 or 10k does not in any way mean I am gonna get any more than the $400 I will get by folding, it will not put me in the top 525.
I wait 1 hand and then try to double and my odds may drop from 83% to even 60% but I do not risk losing $400.
It's not giving up a chance for the big prize it is simply doing it 1 hand later.

Now if I had say 9k already, pushing with KK is different for 2 reasons.....I actually have folding equity and if I'm called and double up it is worth a serious amount of chips.

however.... I certainly would not want you folding KK if you think it is right to play it, but it does mean bad beat stories one in 6 times
I'm just surprised that otherwise good players are making what I consider a bad call here.

To each their own I guess...

[action man]

i would give up poker if i passed KK pre-flop with no action infront of me in that situation, i would be praying for any pair here i probably move with K-high or definately A-high. Nothing personal clayknight, but this is bad fold if u have any aspirations of getting to the higher payouts.  Don't players want to win a comp these days?

[Pab]

For the original post you have to ship it in with JJ in this spot everytime in my opinion with no exceptions

As for folding KK with a few to the money in stars sunday, i wouldnt do it for obvious reasons but if you are happy with just making the money and it makes a difference to you then go ahead and fold

[The Rivercard]

It is 1/50th of my bankroll.

folding does assure me of $400.
I have monied in this event many times so I know how quick they fall.
Getting to 9 or 10k does not in any way mean I am gonna get any more than the $400 I will get by folding, it will not put me in the top 525.
I wait 1 hand and then try to double and my odds may drop from 83% to even 60% but I do not risk losing $400.
It's not giving up a chance for the big prize it is simply doing it 1 hand later.

Now if I had say 9k already, pushing with KK is different for 2 reasons.....I actually have folding equity and if I'm called and double up it is worth a serious amount of chips.

however.... I certainly would not want you folding KK if you think it is right to play it, but it does mean bad beat stories one in 6 times
I'm just surprised that otherwise good players are making what I consider a bad call here.

To each their own I guess...

I think you are outvoted here.....you played for the money. Everyone else would play for the win ( and you would still have made the money). If you want to achieve a major position in a high paying tourney then you have to play your hands. Its no good entering to get in the money,that is a sign of weakness and will be spotted...especially if you play live. You have to decide what you want out of your play. Grinding a few hundred dollars in tourneys will be a slow death.There is to much analyses sometimes over what should be instinct calls and your KK was an example of overthinking an obvious situation.

There is a pub poker league starting soon ...its in general discussions maybe you can practice there , its free to enter so you can be as bold as you like. 

[clayftknight]

'Playing to win'    that old excuse!


"Yeah I went out just before the money but I was playing to win!"

What follows next is calling your opponent a fish or a donk, something 'cool' like that lol

This sheep like mentality is exactly why poker pooks sell.

[clayftknight]

There was a book written about einstein's theories called  '100 reasons'
It was 100 scientists of the day explaining why he was wrong.

His reply...........

"If I were wrong, it would only take one person to tell me"

Taking the majority means little when 95% of the players lose money over time.
So I'd expect 19 people to tell me i'm wrong

Regarding that tourney.......I have not cashed huge in it but I did pick up 13k for 8th.
If someone who has finished higher, in that exact event wants to tell me my fold was wrong I'm all ears.............

[The Rivercard]

There was a book written about einstein's theories called  '100 reasons'
It was 100 scientists of the day explaining why he was wrong.

His reply...........

"If I were wrong, it would only take one person to tell me"

Taking the majority means little when 95% of the players lose money over time.
So I'd expect 19 people to tell me i'm wrong

Regarding that tourney.......I have not cashed huge in it but I did pick up 13k for 8th.
If someone who has finished higher, in that exact event wants to tell me my fold was wrong I'm all ears.............

FIRST $500  Tournament of champions 2005  The Plaza Las Vegas

18th   $1000  NLH  WSOP circuit event Rio 2005


22nd $2000   NLH   WPT  Bellagio  2006
29th  $5000 NLH    WPT  Bellagio  2006

3   $10,000 WSOP SEATS ON POKERSTARS As well as winning a $15000 trip to the Caribbean finished out of the money in the main event but came 7th and 5th in the other events.

Only ever made 17th in the stars 215


Countless other wins, and yet I freely admit I am not a winner at poker and I am not that good. I wish I had more time and commitment to play, but I know one thing for sure....................YOU WHERE WRONG TO FOLD KK  !!!!!


Ok clay your turn ...but try not quoting scientists, how about Harrington,I think his opinion would count.