Posting sample hands

[TightEnd]

Tikay,

Have you given any thought to establishing a new section on the forum asking for comments and advice on sample hands?

This works very well on furms such as cardplayer and 2+2.

I'm not particularly interested in "here's another bad beat I got" type of stuff but I enjoy seeing how different people apprach the same hand

As an example, what are people's views on the following, which was dealt to me in one of the Luton festival events


Early stages, blinds 100-200...I have 5500 Chips Having started at 5000

Dealt 10s in the cut off

One early position limper (c7000 chips, never played him before, no read as such). I call, both blinds complete/check. 700 in pot

Flop As

Check, check, Limper raises and bets 700.

OK flush draw, royal flush draw, second pair, straight possibilities, outs galore.

I call (Yes, I should have re-raised to see where I was Aces-wise)

2100 in pot

Turn

No joy yet

Limper bets 3000

What do you do?

If I get enough responses I'll tell what happened!

[tikay]

Yes we have - marvellous stuff thanks.

Dave has a few good ones too, one of which will be in Poker Europa this month, but he has plenty others. We were thinking of getting Dave to put a few up on blonde under the "how should I have played this hand" stye, with a voting facility to gauge foks reactions to raise/pass/check type questions. Any thoughts?

We also intended to have plenty of "my Final" type reports by Dave, but we hit a snag.........

[Karabiner]

Clear fold for me, but I am a karabiner LOL

But seriously there's a long way to go and the guy ain't gonna fold unless he's got absolutely zilch,
and I guess you're not too confident that your K is winning, or you'd have raised on the flop.

My two penn'th to get you started.

[elblondie]

On the flop you will be a favourite against 90% of the limpers possible hand. You should raise on the flop for several reasons
a) You are probably a favourite and should be trying to build the pot
b) he may pass, and you can win the pot uncontested (even if you were behind to say A10)
c) you avoid the awkward bad call situation on the turn - especially as you are second to speak
If you have raised any amount on the flop, you will have a mandatory call on the turn because of the pot odds. I may have moved all in on the flop even though it looks like an overbet.

To answer your question - do I call the 3000 on the turn ?
Yes. I like to gamble. I like to play pots. I don't like to be ante'd away. If todays your day, you will get off to a good start in the comp. Passing is not a awfully bad play though.

[AdamM]

depends on the stakes and how they relate to your general wealth / bankroll / etc If it's early in a tourney where the buy in represents a significant portion of your money you should probably wait for a better spot, given that as you say, you should have raised on the flop and it might be too late to show the strength now. Tikay knows what I'm taking about here. I'm playing uncharacteristically tight sometimes at the moment because I'm on a very limited bankroll. I dont want to be driving home mumbling "bloody K,10" to myself.

I think yo can gamble on the flop but it's perhaps a bit late by the turn. he's not much bigger than you pre and post flop if at all. If he had AK you'd have known about it by then, if he has A,J he could have limped but would probably check the flop. he could well have limped with K,Q but you're near as damn it 50/50 and he's not going to like you playing back at him with that. If he's limped with Q,10 he'd surely check the nut straight unless he fears the flush draw, which of course you have. if this is the case he's less than 60/40.

One thought though is has he bet 3000 because it's more than half your stack to try and get you all in or has he bet 3000 because it's less than half his stack so he can get away from it? I think that might be the key do your decision. is that strong or weak betting?

actually as it happens I wouldn't of been in the hand at all because I was knockedout of three consecutive tourneys holding K,10 in Nottingham (including twice on the bubble) so would sweat at the sight of it.

[chunkymick]

This situation clearly never arises for me as a starting hand of ks 10s would give me enough cause to shovel all of my chips in pre-flop as I like to gamble

I also play my poker without thinking to much of my current bankroll as sometimes this may cause your judgement or perception of the value of your hand to change.

 

[Ironside]

This situation clearly never arises for me as a starting hand of ks 10s would give me enough cause to shovel all of my chips in pre-flop as I like to gamble

I also play my poker without thinking to much of my current bankroll as sometimes this may cause your judgement or perception of the value of your hand to change.

 

if you like to shovel all your chips in preflop with rags such as KTs what current bankroll do you have? and credit card limit not used doesnt count as a bankroll

KTs is a hand that should rarely be played preflop and is really hard to play on the flop as you rarely flop a strong hand with it

but if your going to play it and you get a flop like this with 13 clean outs you have to close it down by betting
once you check and miss the turn you now have to fold to the bet


when i say you only have 13 outs they is a chance you have more but chances are they would improve his hand as hands that a limper in EP could have AA,KK ------- 99 including all the suited conectors and gapped conectors inbetween
unless your oppo is elblondie when he could be limping early with any 2 knowing full well he can out play you later

[chunkymick]

I am absolutely confused and yet intigued by some of the opinions expressed so far regarding the analysis of the sample hand.
As far as I am concerned too much emphasis is being made on the pure mathematics of playing poker. I am a believer like many of the great poker players such as TJ Cloutier that knowing ones enemy by observing them carefully at the table and understanding their game that the value of your "outs" doesn't come into it.

God - in his/her infinite wisdom gave us a "sense" which unfortunately many poker players refuse or have forgotten to use - instinct.

"Timing is everything in poker" - TJ Cloutier & Tom McEvoy

[TightEnd]

Here's what happened:

At the risk of upsetting the previous poster, I was in mathematical mode because I did not have a read on my foe, or any instinct to put him on a hand.

Was he flat calling with A and a rag, or A 10, A J or anything? I had no idea!

Anyway I decided I had to put him on at least an Ace. He was ahead of me after the turn. Whether he had two pair or not didn't really matter. I needed the drawing odds

I worked out that my outs (holding 10s on a board of As,Kd,Js,9h) were

2 Kings
9 spades
4 Queens
(possibly 3 10's too!)

15/18 outs out of 44 available cards or 3:1/2.75:1, not allowing for the fact that one of those outs might help foe

I was being asked to put 3000 into a 5100 pot or less than 2:1 return on the extra bet

I folded. Basically by not raising on the flop, which was an automatic call for him, I had not created enough pot odds.

Perhaps this is why I routinely fail to accumulate enough chips to play a part in the business end of final tables.

He showed.....




My read wasn't that bad, BUT if I had held that I would have checked the flop, so don't think I could have blamed myself for putting him on A x not two pair.

I'll never know whether I should have gambled, but for about 48 hours afterwards (having departed the comp at about 4am having been struggling with a low stack for about 3 hours) I wondered what might have been...this is also probably a weakness of mine!!!

Thanks for the responses and interest.

TE

[TightEnd]

this was my first ever post and thread on blonde in Feb 2005


how time flies, i was clearly analysing hands even before this forum started and furthermore asking tikay for improvements to a three day old forum with my first post 


bolshie bugger......

[TightEnd]

and these days, I push all in on the flop and have a) fold equity and b) a good chance of hitting


I was such a callow player back then

[Royal Flush]

I dunno whats worse, the play of the hand, or asking Tikay for advice!

[TightEnd]

the play of the hand undoubtedly, cringe 

[Royal Flush]

Tikay knows what I'm taking about here. I'm playing uncharacteristically tight sometimes at the moment because I'm on a very limited bankrol

That tickled me! Pre 2005 was it Adam 'Gus' M?

[byronkincaid]

Anyone else like raising pre-flop or is 6 max cash killing my tourney game?

Edit to say not enough BB's, silly thought.