Call here?

[Claw75]

I'm probably going to show my ignorance now, but I don't understand why you would want to get rid of QJ off suit when you are holding KK?

[Graham C]

In case the flop gives him a straight, trips, two pair or a flush.  Holding a pocket pair, I can only hit trips and be pretty safe.  If a pair comes on the flop, I could be losing out to trips.  Also, if an ace turns up, with KK I'm probably behind.   Imagine letting a hand like    get in cheaply and then an ace and a 6 turn up on the old flop - disaster!

I'd just rather get my chips in there.  Pocket aces are a bit different to me, but I don't usually slow play them.

[Royal Flush]

I'm probably going to show my ignorance now, but I don't understand why you would want to get rid of QJ off suit when you are holding KK?

I am with you Claw.

The amount of times i see QJ stack off on a J72 board to my KK is amazing, why on earth do i want him not doing this!

[SupaMonkey]

Yes, but you would rather play K-K against one opponent and be fairly sure where you stood all hand.

If your raise is small and your oppos know that you do that with monsters (i.e. it is an 'i want action' bet) it is correct for them to call based on implied odds. To put it another way, if someone had called you with a small pocket pair, flopped a set and the ace wasn't on the board. How easy would it have been for you to fold. You probably would have given them your whole stack, so for both the limper and the BB they have 1 - 16 implied odds on a 1 - 7 shot. By increasing your preflop raise by just one BB their implied odds are cut to 1 - 9.66. Hence the correct play pre flop was to raise to 5*BB (250).

The odds of flopping two pair are 1 - 8 i think, hence i used a set as an example.

[Royal Flush]

It's actually 49-1, that may explain your rather protective play.

Implied odds are great, reverse implied odds are better!! You never had KK, seen the flop come 622 and got 77 to stack off?

[SupaMonkey]

Yup and i didn't realise it was 49-1. Thanks.

[totalise]

I'd raise more preflop as well, but not because I want to get hands to fold, just to get them to put more money in the pot, which they are likely to do. If people are willing to put 150 in the pot, then its pretty likely they are gonna apply the fukk it principle and put the extra 100 in there.. and I think the point that Supa is trying to make, is that you would rather make it 200 more and have 2 callers, rather then make it 100 more, and have 4 callers.. as the money going into the pot is the same, but you figure to win the pot much more often against 2 people than 4, and if your stack does get in the middle post-flop, your hand is much more likely to be good vs 2 pre flop callers then vs 4. If that is the point he is trying to make, I would tend to agree

Naturally if you had the choice between 2 callers and 4 callers for 200 a time, you most likely should take the latter, but if its a choice of 200 2 ways or 100 4 ways, you should probably prefer the former, especially if its the case that you are going to get your stack in on any non-ace flop, which is generally the case.

[boldie]

Just my opinion but I would reraise.

Make sure they really have the Ace before you fold your beautifull kings.

It's the one thing I actually learned from listening to Phil's little speeches on pokernight..."Ask the question". 9 out of ten people would fold to your re-raise...1 you raised pre-flop....therefore it's not unlikeley you have an Ace. 2 You probably have a half decent kicker...(you don't raise with Ace 4..unless your table image sucks).

they would therefore really need to have the Ace (or a set) or have stones larges then an elephants to either call or raise you.

like I said..just my opinion..but I have found an awfull lot of people fold when I re-raise them in a situation like this.