Cash Game Question

[Rod Paradise]

I admire his control. I'd have got very angry if a post that strong had been aimed at me.

I don't belive that Adam - I always had you marked down as unrufflable as long as we move the shortstack....



Sorry - couldn't resist

[mjrevie]

my take on this (generally, rather than Daves case specifically) is that a player can certainly get up and walk away after winning a big hand. if they're going to give 30 minutes notice and post at most two BBs and two SBs they might aswell get up straight away and let a new player into the seat. Doing it after one hand doesn't make much sense. you don't know if the table is a good or bad one after one hand. sit in a while and see if there's more to come.

If a player does leave a live cash table and they want to come back they should sit down with pretty much what they got up with. no one should object if it's short by the price of a meal or a couple of drinks but in needs to be in the right region.

I also think it's a bit OTT when players are told they can't take money off the table to buy a drink / pack of smokes / sandwich. I realise they aren't allowed to take lumps of cash off but £5 from a stack of £500 is no problem.

all the above is posted with live poker in mind but the same principles apply online.

HOWEVER, in Daves case he may have broken a few 'rules of etiquette' but he's not cheated and a CAPS LOCK tirade of abuse is well out of order. I admire his control. I'd have got very angry if a post that strong had been aimed at me.

 

[matt674]

Just out of curiosity (not being a cash game monkey) who was it who decided that its not poker etiquette to leave a cash game when you have made a profit without giving notice?

When i used to be manager of a betting shop we didnt have a rule that said once a customer won some money he had to remain in the shop for 30 minutes before he could leave, as far as i'm aware casino's dont have a rule that says you need to play another 10 spins on the roulette wheel if you double your starting stake.

At the end of the day there are no rules in poker and there is no law to say that a player must remain at the table. Just like in football when a team sportingly kicks the ball out of play so an opposing player can receive treatment then it is etiquette that the opposing team returns the ball on the restart of play. If the opposing team doesnt return the ball however - as much as the sporting team may complain no rules have been broken and there isnt anything the referee can do about it.

[Royal Flush]

Just out of curiosity (not being a cash game monkey) who was it who decided that its not poker etiquette to leave a cash game when you have made a profit without giving notice?

When i used to be manager of a betting shop we didnt have a rule that said once a customer won some money he had to remain in the shop for 30 minutes before he could leave, as far as i'm aware casino's dont have a rule that says you need to play another 10 spins on the roulette wheel if you double your starting stake.

At the end of the day there are no rules in poker and there is no law to say that a player must remain at the table. Just like in football when a team sportingly kicks the ball out of play so an opposing player can receive treatment then it is etiquette that the opposing team returns the ball on the restart of play. If the opposing team doesnt return the ball however - as much as the sporting team may complain no rules have been broken and there isnt anything the referee can do about it.

Thats exactly it Matt, there is no rule broken, and i have no idea who came up with the idea. I guess its just natural behaviour, you take a load of money off someone and then nip off it is likely to upset them, so instead you stay and keep the world a calmer place

I imagine as more and more players start playing live cash at the major festivals which are full of qualifers then these practices will start to die out.

[mjrevie]

I would agree with Flushy. Its obviously not a 'rule' per se, but more just a common courtesy. It doesnt bother me if someone does it online, but if i was playing live and someone did it a few times, i would be reluctant to play against them in the future. I cant quite put my finger on why, i agree that if they take my chips, they have no obligation to play with me for an hour so i can win them back, but i just wouldnt be comfortable playing with someone who i know will leave the table at a moments notice.

[Royal Flush]

Just thinking about it, i suppose its pretty similar to most comeptitive sports/games.

If someone beats you, usually you get a re-match, be it a game of pool/darts or a race or anything!

[matt674]

Just thinking about it, i suppose its pretty similar to most comeptitive sports/games.

If someone beats you, usually you get a re-match, be it a game of pool/darts or a race or anything!

Provided both parties agree to the rematch and if in the case of a professional sport so does the sports governing body. I guess we're back to another poker discussion point.

Professional players but no governing body..............

[Bongo]

Does it not also come down to blinds and session fees as well.

Assuming that any spare seats will not be immediately filled, or even a short handed game, then someone may decide not to post a blind or pay a session fee if they know someone/a few people will be leaving shortly.

I don't think i've explained what i mean very well but don't have time to rewrite it today, sorry!!

[AdamM]

who was it who decided that its not poker etiquette to leave a cash game when you have made a profit without giving notice?

No single person decided it. that's kind of the point.  etiquete and customs are commonly agreed and evolve naturally.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Just out of curiosity (not being a cash game monkey) who was it who decided that its not poker etiquette to leave a cash game when you have made a profit without giving notice?

The whole thread has moved off track from the original query, which related to the rule forcing people to return with the money they left with if they left the table and returned within a short period of time.  That is a different situation (effectively taking money from a table and continuing to play there) than the subsequent ethical debate on the issue of hitting and running.

In a public cash game people can and should be free to sit down and leave as and when they choose.  Perhaps its 'bad etiquette' to leave after winning a significant amount of cash in a short time but its not a breach of the rules.  However, its also 'bad etiquette' to slow-roll, rubdown an opponent, swear/abuse players/dealers, etc, etc but some players also choose to do this.  The debate on these issues is an ethical one more than a rulebreaking issue.

However, it would be a breach of the rules (in most places) if that person then tried to sit back down at the same table with a standard buy-in in a short space of time.  The rules are generally pretty clear in this respect, although as some have pointed out, they aren't always enforced.

Sheriff

[action man]

i really don't like 'hit and run merchants' however i understand why people do it.  

The thing is Hit and Run players are usually always playing above their bankroll and the prospect of sitting at a higher level may bring a sense of fear to their game.

If you play at a level which is say a $300 buy in max 2/4nl  game and have say $6k in your BR, there would be no real value of the hit and run move as you would be sat there with double the buyin and a chance to get a big stack.

The Hit and Run technique therefore takes away the old advice of 'never think of chips as real money until you leave the table'

or as kenny rodgers puts it "you never count your money, while your sitting at the table, there will be time enough to count it. when the dealings done"

as for the comment of TY after the double up with AA i would give up poker before i made this comment. Get it quietly if your gonna do it.
    rick

[Sheriff Fatman]

Moving the scope a little further, its only a short step from 'hit and run' etiquette to short-buy in theory for NL cash games and involves much of the same principles.  By buying in for the minimum amount at a table and looking to accumulate a stack you are potentially maximising your upside for a minimum of risk.

Many players find this approach just as morally unacceptable as a 'hit and run' but its a low-risk strategy suggested by a number of respected poker authors as a way in which to learn how to play NLHE. 

My point is that its 'accepted theory' to buy in for $20, say, at a $100 table and look to accumulate a stack from there.  At the end of the day, if you walk away with $200 you've still only risked $20 to achieve that.  Ultimately, this is not much different from someone who chooses to lock up a profit as soon as they've doubled up, even if it only takes them one hand to do so.

Sheriff

[sofa----king]

WELL SCOTISH DAVE NOW I WANT A REAL FIGHT WITH BATS AND STICKS lol ok ok i give up, maybee i was a bit strong on this point ive been thinking about it all day its my personal opinon m8,i think you took what i said in a good way and you were very honest as i felt in your replies,but as to doing it online it is a little bit diffrent as to live as you said you wouldnt do this live so i forgive you a little lol,but seriously i dont know anyone who stands for hit n run players on or offline ,maybee i could meet you and kev at the next bigish event and we could all have a fight or a beer see you again,AS FOR MY CAPITALS i was not shouting m8 my eyes were killing me as it was pretty late and im pony on the computer. so i leave it at the old silly saying WE WILL AGREE TO DISAGREE take care and gl (not with the hit n run though lol) james

[Scottish Dave]

AdamM the reason i didnt get upset is because, there is no real point, people say thing on here that they later regret, (as above) christ knows ive upset a few on here and vice versa.

Sofa, yes we shall agree to Disagree.

as for Newmanseye and Col-Kev, thanks every so much for coming aboard this thread to defend what was being thrown at me, not agreeing with what i said, but backing me up anyway, its appreciated

anyway its seemed to die down....think ill go hit and run the £500 table tonight...Oooops, only kidding! 

[Scottish Dave]

Hey, ive just thougth of something?

Do you think this thread was juicy enough to make the best of blonde board???