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Author Topic: Launch of the Amateur Poker Association & Tour (APAT)  (Read 160202 times)
totalise
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« Reply #240 on: August 01, 2006, 07:52:24 PM »

Now i'm sorry but this is now getting a little ridiculous .

Does McDonalds or B&Q say anywhere on their website that they are profit driven?  Does any company who has a website say that?  I think the answer you will find is no.

Neither do they call themselves a players' association.

exactly.. and other organisations aimed at being FOR THE PLAYERS are non-profit organisations like the WPA (which says explicity on their website its a non-profit organisation)

to call a very valid point/question rediculous, is quite frankly rediculous, especially from someone who has a vested interest in it suceeding
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 07:54:29 PM by totalise » Logged
byronkincaid
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« Reply #241 on: August 01, 2006, 08:02:46 PM »

For the past 3 or 4 months I haven't made any sort of a living doing anything.

I ask here as I thought Tikay or Tighty might know enough about me to be able to give a decision. I wouldn't wish to embarress myself or anyone involved by trying to blag my way into a seat.

Would snoops be allowed to play? Tighty if he were not involved? How about Baron?

I believe they all play 2/4 or higher. I am currently a break even/moderate winner at 0.50/1 and a big loser at 1/2.

I used to play sng's for a living but I haven't played a sng for 3/4 months now.

My GF is pretty much paying for everything and when I'm not looking after our daughter and doing housework I'm losing money playing cash games. Hopefully I'll start winning soon.

I'm not sure if I can make this event or even if I want to play it, but I am interested to know if I am allowed to play it if I so wish.

I heard you described as a pro on Breakfast TV. Would you be allowed to play if you were not involved?

Many Thanks
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Sark79
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« Reply #242 on: August 01, 2006, 08:09:05 PM »


I heard you described as a pro on Breakfast TV. Would you be allowed to play if you were not involved?





What channel was this mate?
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AdamM
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« Reply #243 on: August 01, 2006, 08:09:23 PM »

blimey that took some catching up. I'm going to get my thoughts in quick before it moves on too far

-Well done great idea.

-I don't object to the organisation running at a profit or the people involved profiting personally. If I don't feel like it's value for money, I don't have to renew my membership next year.

-It's a tour so you don't need to travel to Birmingham at great expense. simply wait til the tour roll into your area and play then.

-personally I think £75 is too much. I think £50 would have been better. that said, for some one with a job £75 for a one off special event isn't unreasonable. I do however think that a one day event would have been more appropriate. 3pm start, 12 hours play. job done.

- blind jump from 600/1200 to 1000/2000  >:? sorry. huge mistake nice steady progression 400/800 600/1200 800/1600 1000/2000 much better.

-Name me 10 people who make their income solely from playing poker. I can't name one that doesn't have income from outside business interests. Infact I know of a lot of very big hitters who are company directors and earn alot of money but still play pretty much full time. I don't envy this issue but "Soley from poker" is the wrong criteria because it doesnt exclude anyone. by keeping the buy in low you keep big hitters away because it's not worth their trouble. another good reason for £50.

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ACE2M
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« Reply #244 on: August 01, 2006, 08:10:40 PM »

How can the association maintain impartial objectivity when it is driven by making a profit for the owners?

The fact that it is profit driven is not clear at first.

When a new chairman is elected next year will they be paid?

It's starting to look like another poker venture dressed up as something else, i am all for the concept but it feels like i will just be paying an extra rake to APAT to organise a decent tournamet series.
If the tour will be televised will television revenues be added to prize pools?

Now i'm sorry but this is now getting a little ridiculous .

Does McDonalds or B&Q say anywhere on their website that they are profit driven?  Does any company who has a website say that?  I think the answer you will find is no.

One thing is certain we need members to survive otherwise there won't be a next year.
We are a new venture and are going to strive to give our members the right structures, right payouts and damn fine poker venues for our players and sponsors so that we get to year 2

We will be striding forward for televised events but I think we are quite a way off that yet, but its in the pipeline and once again all comments will be passed to the board for review so we can discuss at a later stage





I have absolutely nothing against you, tighty or anyone else involved, in fact i have real respect for you all.

i honestly think my questions were valid, my job involves attention to detail and on first read of the announcement i was very enthused but honestly think there maybe a room for people not to realise that it is a commercial venture and the players will thus be paying for a service rather than joining association.

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byronkincaid
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« Reply #245 on: August 01, 2006, 08:15:33 PM »


I heard you described as a pro on Breakfast TV. Would you be allowed to play if you were not involved?





What channel was this mate?

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=10420.0
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londonpokergirl
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« Reply #246 on: August 01, 2006, 08:18:55 PM »

Hi Byron

As much as I'd love to play the event i'm afraid as I play poker for a living
I cannot enter, and couldn't enter it as i'm TD Wink  

however from how you described your situation then I would say that yes you would
be eligable to play as you said "For the past 3 or 4 months I haven't made any sort of a living doing anything and My GF is pretty much paying for everything and when I'm not looking after our daughter and doing housework I'm losing money playing cash games"  

Hope this answered your question

Mel

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« Reply #247 on: August 01, 2006, 08:22:16 PM »

How can the association maintain impartial objectivity when it is driven by making a profit for the owners?

The fact that it is profit driven is not clear at first.

When a new chairman is elected next year will they be paid?

It's starting to look like another poker venture dressed up as something else, i am all for the concept but it feels like i will just be paying an extra rake to APAT to organise a decent tournamet series.

If the tour will be televised will television revenues be added to prize pools?



Looks like I am going to have a problem here, as you seem pretty anti, but that's your absolute right, & I will answer your questions as best I can.
 
OK, lets call those Questions 1 to 5.

Question 1.

By appointing a Chairman who they believe can maintain that "impartial ojectivity". Rightly or wrongly, Des D thought I was competent to handle that. Anything he wants to do with APAT, he has to run through me. Anything & everything. And he does. And we argue, to & fro. If he wishes to implement something I disagree with, I have the right to refuse. If there are those who feel I am unable to manage that remit with "impartial objectivity", well, they won't become Members I guess. As I indicated in my "APAT & tikay" missive, it's tough to elect a Chairman for Year one, so I was selected. For year two, the Members will vote for who they wish to be Chairman.

Question 2

Well we never, ever, anywhere, hid it. Why should we? Tighty's "Press Release" had 3 signatories, two of whom (I was the odd one out) were listed as Directors of Amateur Poker Ltd.  Surely that's not hiding the status of the Ltd Company? Do you really think we could, or would, hide this, & keep it secret? I have also explained the Terms of Employment of myself, as have Tighty & Mel. I dont take salary because I need to maintain impartial objectivity. I never, at any time, requested shares, but I was asked to take them. This was agreed, as it happens, in the last 7 days in my case. To be honest, I like blondes to know exactly where I am at on potential conflicts of interest, & I have answered every question, & more, 100% openly & honestly. To clarify once more, I am Chairman of the AMATEUR POKER ASSOCIATION TOUR. It's a non-profit making Association. It's owned by Amateur Poker Ltd. A commercial organiation, designed, we can assume, to be profitable. The Association's Chairman is there to represent the Association's Membership. Des D thought he had found someone as Chairman whose motives were above suspicion. He has.

Question 3.

No idea, but I very much doubt it. And in the unlikely event that I am elected, I most certainly shall not accept a salary, even if offered.

Question 4.

I don't understand this question. On Live Events, it wll be a maximum of 10%. (And added value will be in place for EVERY Live Event). The Membership, be it £5 or £10, is for a year, & will include, I believe, the right to play in 30 odd Events. That hardly strikes me as onerous. We are trying to make the Live Events "special", as those that partake will, I hope, soon see. If they are not happy, they won't return, simple as that. And the thing will fall flat on it's face.

Question 5.

No idea - TV Coverage has not been agreed for Season 1. But it will remain an APAT fundamental that EVERY APAT Live Tourny will have added value. That, in itself, is something I'm pretty pleased about. I have played in less than a handful of Tourneys this year that had added value. And certainly not for a £75 entry fee, plus or minus a bit of Rake.

Hope that clarifies things for you, if not fire away, I'm on the APAT case all night by the looks of it!
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« Reply #248 on: August 01, 2006, 08:24:47 PM »

trouble is mel, you can't deal with it on a case by case basis. generally I find all players are "making a fortune" unless they want something, then they're "scraping a small profit" everyone's a pro and no-one's a pro. I think by making it members only and keeping the buy ins low(er) you won't have to say "NO PRO'S" because the real pro's won't be interested, and even if the odd name does turn up the amature is getting to take them on in their own finacial teritory rather than the pro's.
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Wardonkey
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« Reply #249 on: August 01, 2006, 08:29:17 PM »

ACE2M

The initial post does say 'Amatuer Poker Limited is a commercial entity' quite clearly.

I for one have no problem with an organisation that makes a reasonable profit, as long it does what I expect it to do for me. I suspect, in short-term at least, that APL's profits may fall short of reasonable if you think of the work required to get something like this off the ground.

« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 08:33:59 PM by Wardonkey » Logged

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londonpokergirl
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« Reply #250 on: August 01, 2006, 08:31:00 PM »

trouble is mel, you can't deal with it on a case by case basis. generally I find all players are "making a fortune" unless they want something, then they're "scraping a small profit" everyone's a pro and no-one's a pro. I think by making it members only and keeping the buy ins low(er) you won't have to say "NO PRO'S" because the real pro's won't be interested, and even if the odd name does turn up the amature is getting to take them on in their own finacial teritory rather than the pro's.

We won't be dealing with it on a case by case basis but there maybe a few players who need a bit of clarification and we'll help anyway we can
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totalise
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« Reply #251 on: August 01, 2006, 08:34:06 PM »

ACE2M

The initial post does say 'Amatuer Poker Limited is a commercial entity' quite clearly.

I for one have no problem with an organisation that makes a reasonable profit, as long it does what I expect it do for me. I suspect, in short-term at least, that APL's profits may fall short of reasonable if you think of the work required to get something like this off the ground.



yes it sure does, but the website doesn't take us to amatuer poker limited, it takes us to APAT, which according to tikay is entirely non-profit making.. so I think it makes Ace2M's post valid.

This surely means that any profit made from the APAT will be staying in the APAT for the betterment of the players and not to buy the director a new ferrari right?

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Wardonkey
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« Reply #252 on: August 01, 2006, 08:40:40 PM »

After they have paid APLs fees...
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ACE2M
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« Reply #253 on: August 01, 2006, 08:52:16 PM »

i do not begrudge anyone making a living particularly people i have some even if it be slight connection to.

i assume profit will be garnered from online rake and sponsorship from pokerstars.

Thanks for the detailed reply tikay.

I'm off down the pub so will catch up later but i am not suggesting an intentional deception is taking place but is certainly not clear to the average reader.

I really struggle to understand how your position will be workable as it appears you will be fighting on behalf of players against a business which effectively owns the organisation and how you can have say over a matter which may financially detrimental to the business. You are a businessman not me so i may be way off.
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byronkincaid
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« Reply #254 on: August 01, 2006, 09:00:17 PM »

Hi Byron

As much as I'd love to play the event i'm afraid as I play poker for a living
I cannot enter, and couldn't enter it as i'm TD Wink  

however from how you described your situation then I would say that yes you would
be eligable to play as you said "For the past 3 or 4 months I haven't made any sort of a living doing anything and My GF is pretty much paying for everything and when I'm not looking after our daughter and doing housework I'm losing money playing cash games"  

Hope this answered your question

Mel



Mel

Thanks for your reply and I wish you all, all the best in this project
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