Swapping Percentages

[CelticGeezeer]

i dint play big live trnys, but it just sounds like collusion to me. I don't mind deals and will do them live or online, but if i hit the ft and the other 9, 6 ,5 ,4 ,3 ,2 have a secret deal it would concern me.


Or maybe I am just an over suspicious type ?

[Royal Flush]

its not all about the highest EV choice!

wtf

Shocking eh!

I will sacrafice EV for reduced variance or for fun.

Take this weekend, do i play the Brighton festival which will cost me 500+300+200 or do i go to Newcastle and play the P4C events costing me 200 in travel and 500 in rebuys when even if i win one of the events i wont be doubling my money, but will be having a damn good laugh! Bit of an extreme scenario i know but you get the point i hope.

Besides if having a mate at the table keeps you more entertained then maybe you won't get bored and so play better for longer thus making it higher EV.....

[BrumBilly]

I think there's something in that idea. Nobody wants to be caught with their pants down in front of a mate who's game they respect. Be like having three inner voices (Two Good and One Evil). hmm...just read this back and it 'kinda' makes some sense and no sense at the same time but it is quater to six and I'm too knackered to alter it...lol

[thetank]

I'm not a big fan of % swapping in tournaments to be honest with you, let alone cash games. (where I would have less of a problem)

Very outspoken on this, so I usually stay quiet.

Just posted to agree with the idea that if it's ok in tournaments ( ) then it should be ok in cash games too.

[Karabiner]

From my fairly long experience playing live poker in the UK, imo at least 75%

of those swopping %ages in tournaments collude and soft-play to some degree.

Most of them have been doing it for years and would not think of it as wrongdoing.

[MrsLime]

In real life say you got prop deals that pay 130% rakeback. If you are paying for example $10 per table per hour rake. You could play 4 tables and make $12 per hour each + any money you would get being winning players from any other players who sit down at the table.

Where is this site that pays 130% rakeback?  The highest I know is 110%.  Also there are normally various rules, for example: no heads-up play with other props, which sort of ruins your licence to print money.  Let me know.

On a more general note, there is always going to be a perception of collusion when you play with your boy- or girl-friend, and/or players you are known to swap percentages with.  For example, imagine you are down to the final four in a live WSOP multi-table satellite, with three seats available and nothing for fourth.  You have 70% of the chips and the others have 10% each.  Your girlfriend/percentage buddy moves all-in on your big blind for and it folds to you.  Considering what is on the line, would you not be tempted to pass, even though there is (quite possible literally) no hand you can justify folding here?  Or, if you call with 2-3 offsuit, will you be accused of trying to double him/her up?

However, sometimes things that look like collusion, aren't.  I was sure I was a witness to collusion in a [three-person payout] cash SNG where, four-handed, the chip leader had about 25 big blinds, me and one other guy had about 6 big blinds, and one guy was truly desperate, he only had 1 big blind.  Me and the other medium guy would pass every hand, not wanting to risk running into the chip leader and bubbling.  Anyway, we assumed we would be three-way any moment soon.  But when the chip leader was the SB, he would pass and give the micro stack in the BB a walk!  This happened on every orbit!  Collusion with his mate, surely...?  Not in this instance... things are not always what they seem!  I can't remember who bubbled... but when it got to three-handed the CL had 95% of chips in play :-)

[Sheriff Fatman]

Looks to me like the chip leader was deliberately prolonging the bubble to allow him to keep accumulating chips.  Its sometimes advantageous to do this, although normally the strategy is seen in Multi table tournaments rather than SnGs.

The person who's benefitting from this tactic is the chip leader himself.  If he ended up with 95% of the chip as a result then it worked spectacularly well.

My point is that its not collusion.  I expect he was doing it for his own benefit.

Sheriff

[byronkincaid]

In real life say you got prop deals that pay 130% rakeback. If you are paying for example $10 per table per hour rake. You could play 4 tables and make $12 per hour each + any money you would get being winning players from any other players who sit down at the table.

Where is this site that pays 130% rakeback?  The highest I know is 110%.  Also there are normally various rules, for example: no heads-up play with other props, which sort of ruins your licence to print money.  Let me know.

On a more general note, there is always going to be a perception of collusion when you play with your boy- or girl-friend, and/or players you are known to swap percentages with.  For example, imagine you are down to the final four in a live WSOP multi-table satellite, with three seats available and nothing for fourth.  You have 70% of the chips and the others have 10% each.  Your girlfriend/percentage buddy moves all-in on your big blind for and it folds to you.  Considering what is on the line, would you not be tempted to pass, even though there is (quite possible literally) no hand you can justify folding here?  Or, if you call with 2-3 offsuit, will you be accused of trying to double him/her up?

However, sometimes things that look like collusion, aren't.  I was sure I was a witness to collusion in a [three-person payout] cash SNG where, four-handed, the chip leader had about 25 big blinds, me and one other guy had about 6 big blinds, and one guy was truly desperate, he only had 1 big blind.  Me and the other medium guy would pass every hand, not wanting to risk running into the chip leader and bubbling.  Anyway, we assumed we would be three-way any moment soon.  But when the chip leader was the SB, he would pass and give the micro stack in the BB a walk!  This happened on every orbit!  Collusion with his mate, surely...?  Not in this instance... things are not always what they seem!  I can't remember who bubbled... but when it got to three-handed the CL had 95% of chips in play :-)

You can find 130%+ prop deals on google in less than a minute. That bubble sng strategy is standard. You say there is always a perception of collusion. I say there is no perception of collusion when for example the Hendon Mob or Tikay and Julian (if they swap %'s??? I have no idea if they do or not) are at the same table.

I hardly ever play live although that will hopefully change next year, but from what I read on here tons of people swap %s. It's not my place to comment on that until I start playing live but I sure that the vast majority of Blondes who have a 5% saver with their friend are not cheating in any way at all. But that's not really why I started this thread. I was just trying to think about it in a slightly different way. I would still be interested to know from someone who swaps %s or thinks swapping %s is OK why it's OK in tourneys and not cash? It's something that I'm 99.99999999% probably never going to do, it's just something I was thinking about yesterday

[totalise]

its not all about the highest EV choice!

wtf

Shocking eh!

I will sacrafice EV for reduced variance or for fun.

Take this weekend, do i play the Brighton festival which will cost me 500+300+200 or do i go to Newcastle and play the P4C events costing me 200 in travel and 500 in rebuys when even if i win one of the events i wont be doubling my money, but will be having a damn good laugh! Bit of an extreme scenario i know but you get the point i hope.

Besides if having a mate at the table keeps you more entertained then maybe you won't get bored and so play better for longer thus making it higher EV.....

lol yeah I get the point fully, but its not really pertinent to the thread, and specifically the points Byron was raising, ie the EV of  % swapping.

Nice story though