This is what we are all up against

[mjrevie]

This is just simply by far and away the worst play i have ever seen live. He won the tournament by the way. Thank god i got out the way. I'm still in shock at this.



PokerStars Game #6094011260: Tournament #30881146, $30+$3 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/08/29 - 10:25:42 (ET)
Table '30881146 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: rimbo222 (1335 in chips)
Seat 3: rinaldo76 (990 in chips)
Seat 4: mjtr (2085 in chips)
Seat 5: EugeneE (1000 in chips)
Seat 6: cardman82 (3832 in chips)
Seat 7: el_pedrin0 (1150 in chips)
Seat 8: Wiznakh (1508 in chips)
Seat 9: A-1stud (1600 in chips)
mjtr: posts small blind 25
EugeneE: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mjtr [ ]
cardman82: calls 50
el_pedrin0: folds
Wiznakh: folds
A-1stud: calls 50
rimbo222: folds
rinaldo76: folds
mjtr: calls 25
EugeneE: checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
mjtr: checks
EugeneE: checks
cardman82: checks
A-1stud: bets 100
mjtr: folds
EugeneE: folds
cardman82: calls 100
*** TURN *** [ ] []
cardman82: checks
A-1stud: bets 250
cardman82: calls 250
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
cardman82: checks
A-1stud: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
cardman82: shows [ ] (a straight, Six to Ten)
A-1stud: mucks hand
cardman82 collected 900 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 900 | Rake 0
Board [As ]
Seat 1: rimbo222 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: rinaldo76 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: mjtr (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: EugeneE (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: cardman82 showed [ ] and won (900) with a straight, Six to Ten
Seat 7: el_pedrin0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Wiznakh folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: A-1stud mucked [ ]

He called on the flop with T high, then called on the turn with an inside straight draw and then checked on the river when he hit his miracle card? CRAZY FOOL!!

[boldie]

well to be fair I see two players that should have played this hand differently.

why are you folding when holding the 9 when you are being priced into the pot? A re-raise was the play to make here (or bet it yourself...even better)...scare everyone out of the pot. if someone is holding the Ace make sure he's the only one that can afford to call...you

Yeah the other guy was chasing air and chasing it hard, I have seen many players play like this online , and even live, and they might win it ones when taking these risks but they will surely consistently do their money in. So you want these guys playing at your table...

[mjrevie]

I was happy to get out of the way and let them battle it out. If either of them had an ace, i was drawing dead and i put at least one of them on an ace. Yeah it was wrong but i wasnt confident enough to risk my chips over it.

[SupaMonkey]

I actually think it was cardman's intention to check-call it down to the river and the bet the pot there. It would be difficult to call that.

[ACE2M]

That made me smile.

One of those when your sat there saying well he must have an ace and are totally blown away by what they actually had.

I bet my nine there almost everytime.

[boldie]

I actually think it was cardman's intention to check-call it down to the river and the bet the pot there. It would be difficult to call that.

fair point..indeed the guy was either the biggest fish around or he was always planning on making a play on the river and just happened to hit the straight.

[mjrevie]

I actually think it was cardman's intention to check-call it down to the river and the bet the pot there. It would be difficult to call that.

fair point..indeed the guy was either the biggest fish around or he was always planning on making a play on the river and just happened to hit the straight.

Look at this hand. I think you are giving him way too much respect!!

*********** # 50 **************
PokerStars Game #6094064588: Tournament #30881146, $20+$2 Hold'em No
Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/08/29 - 10:35:14 (ET)
Table '30881146 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: rimbo222 (2793 in chips)
Seat 3: rinaldo76 (940 in chips)
Seat 4: mjtr (2085 in chips)
Seat 5: EugeneE (700 in chips)
Seat 6: cardman82 (3432 in chips)
Seat 7: el_pedrin0 (2050 in chips)
Seat 9: A-1stud (1500 in chips)
el_pedrin0: posts small blind 50
A-1stud: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mjtr [ ]
rimbo222: calls 100
rinaldo76: folds
mjtr: raises 150 to 250
EugeneE: folds
cardman82: calls 250
el_pedrin0: folds
A-1stud: calls 150
rimbo222: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [ ]
A-1stud: checks
rimbo222: checks
mjtr: bets 500
cardman82: raises 2682 to 3182 and is all-in
A-1stud: folds
rimbo222: folds
mjtr: calls 1335 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [ ] []
mjtr said, "outdraw"
mjtr said, "Q"
mjtr said, "Q"
mjtr said, "Q"
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
mjtr said, "booo"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mjtr: shows [ ] (a pair of Jacks)
cardman82: shows [ ] (a pair of Jacks - lower kicker)
mjtr collected 4720 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4720 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: rimbo222 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: rinaldo76 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: mjtr showed [ ] and won (4720) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 5: EugeneE folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: cardman82 (button) showed [ ] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 7: el_pedrin0 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: A-1stud (big blind) folded on the Flop

[boldie]

I actually think it was cardman's intention to check-call it down to the river and the bet the pot there. It would be difficult to call that.

fair point..indeed the guy was either the biggest fish around or he was always planning on making a play on the river and just happened to hit the straight.

Look at this hand. I think you are giving him way too much respect!!

*********** # 50 **************
PokerStars Game #6094064588: Tournament #30881146, $20+$2 Hold'em No
Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/08/29 - 10:35:14 (ET)
Table '30881146 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: rimbo222 (2793 in chips)
Seat 3: rinaldo76 (940 in chips)
Seat 4: mjtr (2085 in chips)
Seat 5: EugeneE (700 in chips)
Seat 6: cardman82 (3432 in chips)
Seat 7: el_pedrin0 (2050 in chips)
Seat 9: A-1stud (1500 in chips)
el_pedrin0: posts small blind 50
A-1stud: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mjtr [ ]
rimbo222: calls 100
rinaldo76: folds
mjtr: raises 150 to 250
EugeneE: folds
cardman82: calls 250
el_pedrin0: folds
A-1stud: calls 150
rimbo222: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [ ]
A-1stud: checks
rimbo222: checks
mjtr: bets 500
cardman82: raises 2682 to 3182 and is all-in
A-1stud: folds
rimbo222: folds
mjtr: calls 1335 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [ ] []
mjtr said, "outdraw"
mjtr said, "Q"
mjtr said, "Q"
mjtr said, "Q"
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
mjtr said, "booo"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mjtr: shows [ ] (a pair of Jacks)
cardman82: shows [ ] (a pair of Jacks - lower kicker)
mjtr collected 4720 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4720 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: rimbo222 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: rinaldo76 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: mjtr showed [ ] and won (4720) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 5: EugeneE folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: cardman82 (button) showed [ ] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 7: el_pedrin0 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: A-1stud (big blind) folded on the Flop

what are you trying to say?

the boy had top pair with a good kicker and he stuck a decent reraise  (5 times your raise roughly) in on the flop  which you called with top pair and a king (to his queen)...this does not make you the better player!...actually he had more outs then you did.

I am not saying he's a genius..but this hand does not prove the guy is a crap player.

[LeKnave]

what are you trying to say?

the boy had top pair with a good kicker and he stuck a decent reraise  (5 times your raise roughly) in on the flop  which you called with top pair and a king (to his queen)...this does not make you the better player!...actually he had more outs then you did.

I am not saying he's a genius..but this hand does not prove the guy is a crap player.

How did he have more outs?

From what i see he had a Q or runner runner str8 + Flush draw, whereas Mjr had the remainder of the deck...

[mjrevie]

When someone raises and there is a call pre-flop, I throw QJ away. At best i'm behind and if I hit either of my cards, i could be outkicked. Its a hand that i can only really see you getting into trouble with unless you hit a monster hand, a straight or two pair. I think his play on the flop wasnt too bad, but his play pre-flop was really poor. I dont think my play was particularly good and there was a chance the original raiser had an overpair and had us both beat, but his play, IMO, is pretty bad.

Also, i dont know how he had more outs than me? He needed runner runner for a flush or a straight, plus I dont need outs, i'm ahead by quite a distance - he had less than a 1 in 5 chance of winning. The way he had been playing previously, I would have expected him to re-raise pre flop with any hand that was beating me. I was actualy more scared of him having J5 or T5 rather than AJ or TJ.

[boldie]

what are you trying to say?

the boy had top pair with a good kicker and he stuck a decent reraise  (5 times your raise roughly) in on the flop  which you called with top pair and a king (to his queen)...this does not make you the better player!...actually he had more outs then you did.

I am not saying he's a genius..but this hand does not prove the guy is a crap player.

How did he have more outs?

From what i see he had a Q or runner runner str8 + Flush draw, whereas Mjr had the remainder of the deck...

yeah the outs part is true ofcourse...my bad I only talked about the runner runners there..ofcourse the rest of the deck is against him.

I am not keen however on saying this is bad play. the boy played JQ..hits top pair..has a decent kicker and then sticks his chips in in a fair bet....

what would you have done?...folded top pair witha  queen kicker to any raise? (this is assuming you see the flop)

[LeKnave]

what are you trying to say?

the boy had top pair with a good kicker and he stuck a decent reraise  (5 times your raise roughly) in on the flop  which you called with top pair and a king (to his queen)...this does not make you the better player!...actually he had more outs then you did.

I am not saying he's a genius..but this hand does not prove the guy is a crap player.

How did he have more outs?

From what i see he had a Q or runner runner str8 + Flush draw, whereas Mjr had the remainder of the deck...

yeah the outs part is true ofcourse...my bad I only talked about the runner runners there..ofcourse the rest of the deck is against him.

I am not keen however on saying this is bad play. the boy played JQ..hits top pair..has a decent kicker and then sticks his chips in in a fair bet....

what would you have done?...folded top pair witha  queen kicker to any raise? (this is assuming you see the flop)

I wouldnt be in the pot to see the flop to start with, BUT should i see the flop then perhaps i would have made a similar move dependant on Mj's image at the table.

[mjrevie]

I am not keen however on saying this is bad play. the boy played JQ..hits top pair..has a decent kicker and then sticks his chips in in a fair bet....

what would you have done?...folded top pair witha  queen kicker to any raise? (this is assuming you see the flop)

Maybe i'm too tight then because i doubt i would have pushed all my chips in the same way (and there is no way i'm seeing a raised flop with QJ unless the blinds were bigger and even then i probably push pre-flop and try and take it down). I had been playing really tight and when i bet out most people were given me due respect. Most times i had the goods.

In fairness, i suppose it was a push and so could be seen as a semi-bluff. However, the original point of puting this second hand up was to demonstrate that i didnt think he was that complex a fella. I have no idea what he was doing in the first hand. Yes check-call to push somone off a hand, but i didnt like the check on the river and i think if that was his strategy (to push someon off the hand) he should have re-raised them on the turn.

Just my 2 cents

[SupaMonkey]

He strikes me as the kind of guy who has played a lot of poker but has never read a poker book. I think he knows how to push people around at the poker table but doesn't understand (or at least believe in) traditional starting hand values. I imagine when has a big stack he would be very difficult to beat.

I see your point but there is also an argument for you laying down here. If he pushes with any pp 10's or greater and with top pair when he has it with a Q, K or A kicker, plus 5-5 and j-10 and K-Q then he is over 60% fav to win the hand. Only when you take into account that he might be pushing with the 10 and a greater kicker do you start to be fav. (err..., this is supposing i've used pokerstove properly).

Anyway, i'm not having a go. If i was planning to bluff you on the end then i hit my straight, i would also check-call the end cos i hate to be reraised with the straight. So i like his check there.

[totalise]

Neither of these hands in isolation OR in tandem are evidence that he is a bad player... and some of the comments in this thread are pretty ludicrous.

I wonder if theres a thread on another forum laughing and mocking someone for making an almost min-raise with KJ after someone has limped utg, because thats not really the play of a champion either.