how do they keep making the calls

[AdamM]

got knocked out of two consecutive live comps by the same hand although in very different circumstances. they're both beats but Im not concerned by that (they don't hurt as much not my living doesnt depend on it) I just need some help understanding the calls. Are these calls justifyable?

HAND 1

down to 12 players on two tables of a £10 rebuy comp that started with 120 runners.
Blinds 4000/8000
approx 720000 chips in play making avge 60000
I have 48000 in seat 5
UTG is an inexperienced player who either calls or moves all in. seriously, NO other moves.
He has 70000 and limps for 8000
seat 4 passes
I raise to 24000 with 
seat 6 and SB pass
BB raises all in which is total bet of 36000 including his BB
UTG limper calls the 28000
I put them all in so UTG has to call 12000 on the side which he does

BB shows  and UTG shows 

excellent for me

flop is  so I cant even hit the case  because it makes his flush.

now I think his limp with 6 handed isnt unreasonable. I wouldnt play it like that. I'd either raise or pass but the limp is an option. once I've raised and the BB has made his stand with QJ ( must have looked like a good spot after a card drought perhaps) surely the KJ is an easy pass. Obviously once he HAS called and I put the 12000 on the side of 112000 main pot the call is a no brainer.

It was with some amusement that 20  minutes into the following nights limited rebuy the guy was walking about having been eliminated.

HAND 2
65 minutes into a limited rebuy (1) tourney. rebuy period has 10 mins left and I've had my single rebuy (trip 4's v flush draw which hit, fair enough)
Blinds are now 200/400 and I have 2400 Avge at table is 7k/8k so I'm off the pace
I've decided I have to accumulate some chips before the blinds go up to 400/800 and the top ups take the avge chips to 10k
I'm in seat 6 and it's passed to me. I have  and move in for 2400
passes to the button who huffs and puffs, bangs his chips and shakes his head. He does this EVERY decision he has to make. He calls and the blinds quickly pass.

As I turn my cards over I am accepting my fate, I must have run into A,10 / Aj or a middle to low pair. 6,6 - 8,8 probably.

nope  again.

flop      I politely ask the dealer for low black cards so he puts  and the straight takes it.

he had a fairly healthy stack. 11k at a guess but does anyone else make that call with KJ?

I've just spent the week by the pool reading Harrington in between swims and I think I'm going to have to re read it as I apear to have missed a chapter.

oh well. third times a charm. I'll try  the £50 limited rebuy but if I get KO'd by  I'm gonna be pissed.

Bizarrely this is a hand that holds some meaning to me. I've had a royal flush twice, both times I've held

weird

[marcro]

Because they see these type of hands repeatedly winning.

[NEVES]

The previous post hits the nail on the head to a degree, and also players
like these tend not to have a real tourney stratagey more of a wham bam
thank u mam approach, they aint got ur mind set Adam.

          Best
              Neves

[AdamM]

you say that but the noticable similarity between the players were that they're young inexperienced players who obviously took themselves VERY seriously indeed. the first guy was short, 19/20 ish, very muscular and in between hands you could watch him checking out his arm muscles. when he moved all in it was by standing up and waving both hands in a WPT final table type way. second guy, young asian lad, took every decision very seriously. as I said, every time the action came to him raised he's huff and puff as if his master plan move had been spoiled by the previous bets. invariably he'd pass after the amature dramatics. unfortunately for me, this time he called.

Don't get me wrong, I defend these blokes rights to play their cards however they like, especially on a £10 beginners rebuy but it makes the games extremely difficult to play. I'm much more comfortable in a £200 freeze (100% final table record, played 2 cashed 2. long may it continue).  would just be nice to get the hang of the cheaper tourneys to subsidise the bigger buy in games.

keep plugging away I guess

[matt674]

You say "how do they keep making the calls" - but at the end of the day is this not what you want?

Forgive me but i'll take people calling my all in raises and reraises with hands like QJo/s and KJ every day of the week.

No hand is unbeatable preflop but if i can get them calling me with this kind of standard then i know in the long run i am going to win more than i lose as dictated by the law of averages.

Long may it continue............

[marcro]

You say "how do they keep making the calls" - but at the end of the day is this not what you want?

Forgive me but i'll take people calling my all in raises and reraises with hands like QJo/s and KJ every day of the week.

No hand is unbeatable preflop but if i can get them calling me with this kind of standard then i know in the long run i am going to win more than i lose as dictated by the law of averages.

Long may it continue............

Isn't the saying "monkey see, monkey do" more appropriate?

[boldie]

You say "how do they keep making the calls" - but at the end of the day is this not what you want?

Forgive me but i'll take people calling my all in raises and reraises with hands like QJo/s and KJ every day of the week.

No hand is unbeatable preflop but if i can get them calling me with this kind of standard then i know in the long run i am going to win more than i lose as dictated by the law of averages.

Long may it continue............

yes I fully agree with this.

the reason those young guys who don't know what they are doing are calling with these hands is because they watch late night poker and it's their only source of education. There they see people moving in with shit like that or people getting lucky with hands like that or even worse..numptymc numpt and steve davis hyping up suited high cards and connectors without properly explaining how they should be/can be played.

Late night poker (and most highlighted poker shows) only teach people how to play shitty poker...thank God for late night poker.

[AdamM]

roll on the up swing in the variance then

[Rookie (Rodney)]

Think about this .. How many times have you been called by KJ and how many times have you won but not batted an eyelid about their call? I feel its only that you've lost on both occasions that you are questioning

[Sheriff Fatman]

You've also described both opponents as young and inexperienced.  Given that, I'd expect to see some odd calls from both of them.

The second call is not that big a surprise from a new player.  He'll see it as a relatively cheap call for a decent pot with a 'good' hand (wow, two face cards, monster!)  He'll be totally oblivious to the fact that the blinds are still to speak and probably also to the concept of domination, which is a risk with a hand like KJ.

Sheriff

PS: First hand shouldn't be a surprise to you either given your description.  You said he has two plays, call or all-in.  Folding is not on the list, so don't expect one   

[AdamM]

true

Hand 3

perfect end to the week.
26 players left
blinds 1500/3000
tourney avge 28000
two players at the table have most of the chips. Greek Jackal from Juniors bad beat story and Uber loose passive, the whole table is revolving around the bizarre plays of these two guys. they were in a massive hand with each other just before I arrived at the table which Junior has promised to post.
I am down to 16000 and have been nicking one set of blinds a round for two rounds just surviving. with a tad over 5xBB my requirements aren't high at this stage.
I'm in seat4 and it's Juniors BB . I see KQ off and put in 16k. it passes round to Uber Loose passive on the Button who throws out 8k of his approx 80k stack, apparently not aware I'd raised. when his attention is drawn to it he immediately makes up to 16k. SB and Junior both pass.
he shows 8,4 off. pairs his 8. job done.

still, at least it wasn't  again.

first two comps were £10 and £20 limited rebuy comps. both Max spen of £40 so you expect it but in a £50 rebuy, max £150 spend it sometimes suprises me the level of play. still, you here about worse play in MUCH bigger comps than that (well, if there's a worse play than calling with 8,4 off I'd be suprised, but you know what I mean)

No live poker til BB3 now. I expect a much higher standard of play from Blondites.

[Meatman00]

sounds like good old notts gala to me.

I dont know what it is about that place but when I play in there I turn into the loosest player in the world, and it usually works.  The only way to beat loose players is by joining them. 

[Royal Flush]

To be fair wasn't he trying to raise? Does he not have to call now?

[AdamM]

I think if he's unaware there's a raise behind him he doesnt have to bet the 16k. if he's said all in, then spotted me then it's different but his intention is to bet 8k and thats not a legitamate bet so he can pass. (wish he had)

[Royal Flush]

I think if he's unaware there's a raise behind him he doesnt have to bet the 16k. if he's said all in, then spotted me then it's different but his intention is to bet 8k and thats not a legitamate bet so he can pass. (wish he had)

Fair do's i am not sure of the local rules. If he knew it was 16k then he is barmy, if he thought he was going to lose the 8k if he decided to fold he has to call.