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Author Topic: Playing TT OOP  (Read 3466 times)
NoflopsHomer
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« on: September 03, 2006, 07:11:30 PM »

Comments on what I should do next and how I've played the hand so far please.

Table "CPC 2006 WeeklyFinal 3338367 - 4" Seat 10 is the button.
Seat 1: Wayne1956 (3395 in chips)
Seat 3: Char24101 (3230 in chips)
Seat 4: Vidivici1 (4390 in chips)
Seat 5: Gannerrhy (2380 in chips)
Seat 6: Buffsta (2240 in chips)
Seat 7: Brenda (3840 in chips)
Seat 9: 1986 (3270 in chips)
Seat 10: Oneputt (2255 in chips)
Wayne1956: posts small blind 15
Char24101: posts big blind 30
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Gannerrhy [ ]
Vidivici1: folds
Gannerrhy: raises to 90
Buffsta: folds
Brenda: folds
1986: calls 90
Oneputt: folds
Wayne1956: folds
Char24101: calls 60
----- FLOP ----- [ ]
Char24101: checks
Gannerrhy: bets 240
1986: calls 240
Char24101: folds
----- TURN ----- [ ][]
Gannerrhy: bets 390
1986: calls 390
----- RIVER ----- [ ][]
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snoopy1239
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2006, 07:39:58 PM »

I'd make bigger bets and check the river.
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totalise
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2006, 07:49:58 PM »

And whilst we wait for the reshuffle to make room for the £100 D-C F/O, I managed to grab the chip-counts for Table Iqbal.

Iqbal -- 108k
Herbert -- 83k
Ashworth -- 55.5k
Douglas -- 22k
Huckley -- 69k
Mulla -- 61k


this is the correct play
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NoflopsHomer
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2006, 07:51:07 PM »

And whilst we wait for the reshuffle to make room for the £100 D-C F/O, I managed to grab the chip-counts for Table Iqbal.

Iqbal -- 108k
Herbert -- 83k
Ashworth -- 55.5k
Douglas -- 22k
Huckley -- 69k
Mulla -- 61k


this is the correct play

 
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snoopy1239
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2006, 07:52:01 PM »

And whilst we wait for the reshuffle to make room for the £100 D-C F/O, I managed to grab the chip-counts for Table Iqbal.

Iqbal -- 108k
Herbert -- 83k
Ashworth -- 55.5k
Douglas -- 22k
Huckley -- 69k
Mulla -- 61k


this is the correct play

god damn this slow connection...

I was too slow!
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Nem
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2006, 08:04:52 PM »

WHOOOOOOSH
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NoflopsHomer
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2006, 08:06:07 PM »

Gannerrhy: checks
1986: bets 2550 and is all-in

Now what?
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Nem
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2006, 08:07:47 PM »

You should have put a blocker bet in.

Tough call, you can only beat a bluff...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2006, 08:09:34 PM by Nemesis » Logged
Dale
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2006, 09:38:31 PM »

blocker bets are the worst, i make fake blocker bets coz i know its just asking to be pushed against, ship it, holla.
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SupaMonkey
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2006, 02:34:56 AM »

Gotta call but i think you could have check-called the turn and the river. Almost everytime you check here you are going to get a big bet. It really depends on your oppo. Close your eyes and call.
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jezza777
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2006, 03:07:37 AM »

ok I dont like the way this plays out.

When the blinds are so small I dont see the point of raising with 1010, especially in such an early position. Is limping with the intention of calling a raise such a bad thing this early in a comp when the stacks are deep? If you get a caller in the next couple of seats then the button will likley call to use position , then the bb probably feels priced in to see a flop with a wide range of holdings. Now you are in an unenviable position of playing a swollen pot OOP with a hand that is very vunerable unless it sets up.

There is 285 in the pot on the flop and you lead for 240 . A fair enough bet but due to the preflop raise the bet is costing you 10% of your stack. Early on in a tourney I think it far  better to try and keep pots small if you can .

I am really struggling to put him on a hand here, partly because when the stacks are deep and it's cheap to play people play all sorts but also because the flop looks very innocent . A great flop for tens really. I think he has 97 for top pair which hits its second pair on the turn. It is the only holding that makes any sense to me.(although a set would look similar)  As you raised preflop he will expect you lead out so he flat calls with the intention of playing back at you on the turn if you check. Then not only does he hit his second pair but you lead again for 390 , which I think is just over half the pot. Now he really must give you credit for a hand and the way it has been played an overpair is your most likley holding, I think Ak and the like give up on the turn.

I dont think you can call thr river all in your hand isn't strong enough and I think all in river bets like this mean immense strength a lot more often than a bluff.

Going back to my first point , we all learnt that aggressive poker is winning poker , if you come into a pot it should be for a raise ectect.. I think that this still holds very true in the middle and latter stages of tournaments. In the very early stages however I have found myself playing almost anti-poker. I will call with big pairs and aq ak ect and try to keep the pot size manageable and disguise the strength of my hand . I very very rarely get all of my stack in the middle in the first few levels and will easily fold quite big hands. I do play suited connectors and the like however , usually coming in for a raise and always with position. Again this disguises my hand and if I hit I can stack someone. I think early on in tournaments is all about implied odds.

I know it sounds like I am advocating calling alot and general passiveness here which goes against the grain but these days poker is so aggressive that people overvalue and overplay hands a hell of a lot. There are a lot of chips to be hoovered up early in a tournament .

Well thats a bit jumbled but it's late.

good luck

jezza
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NoflopsHomer
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2006, 03:46:26 AM »

I called in the end and he showed 

Didn't help that I ran my AK into Dewi's KK shortly afterwards though. Sad
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M3boy
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2006, 08:07:43 AM »

So you won the hand then Smiley

But as Jezza said, I dont like raising with 10 10 in early position and early in a Tourney - it only gets you in trouble most of the time.
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matt674
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2006, 10:25:23 AM »

So you won the hand then Smiley

But as Jezza said, I dont like raising with 10 10 in early position and early in a Tourney - it only gets you in trouble most of the time.

i agree - usually i wont raise from early position with 10-10 or J-J during the early stages of a tournament, but then having seen a 9-6-3 rainbow flop for cheap you'll end up with the same decision to face on the river whether you raised or limped. Apart from seeing a third 10 on the flop you've hit just about a perfect a flop as possible.
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2006, 10:50:59 AM »

ok I dont like the way this plays out.

When the blinds are so small I dont see the point of raising with 1010, especially in such an early position. Is limping with the intention of calling a raise such a bad thing this early in a comp when the stacks are deep? If you get a caller in the next couple of seats then the button will likley call to use position , then the bb probably feels priced in to see a flop with a wide range of holdings. Now you are in an unenviable position of playing a swollen pot OOP with a hand that is very vunerable unless it sets up.

There is 285 in the pot on the flop and you lead for 240 . A fair enough bet but due to the preflop raise the bet is costing you 10% of your stack. Early on in a tourney I think it far  better to try and keep pots small if you can .

I am really struggling to put him on a hand here, partly because when the stacks are deep and it's cheap to play people play all sorts but also because the flop looks very innocent . A great flop for tens really. I think he has 97 for top pair which hits its second pair on the turn. It is the only holding that makes any sense to me.(although a set would look similar)  As you raised preflop he will expect you lead out so he flat calls with the intention of playing back at you on the turn if you check. Then not only does he hit his second pair but you lead again for 390 , which I think is just over half the pot. Now he really must give you credit for a hand and the way it has been played an overpair is your most likley holding, I think Ak and the like give up on the turn.

I dont think you can call thr river all in your hand isn't strong enough and I think all in river bets like this mean immense strength a lot more often than a bluff.

Going back to my first point , we all learnt that aggressive poker is winning poker , if you come into a pot it should be for a raise ectect.. I think that this still holds very true in the middle and latter stages of tournaments. In the very early stages however I have found myself playing almost anti-poker. I will call with big pairs and aq ak ect and try to keep the pot size manageable and disguise the strength of my hand . I very very rarely get all of my stack in the middle in the first few levels and will easily fold quite big hands. I do play suited connectors and the like however , usually coming in for a raise and always with position. Again this disguises my hand and if I hit I can stack someone. I think early on in tournaments is all about implied odds.

I know it sounds like I am advocating calling alot and general passiveness here which goes against the grain but these days poker is so aggressive that people overvalue and overplay hands a hell of a lot. There are a lot of chips to be hoovered up early in a tournament .

Well thats a bit jumbled but it's late.

good luck

jezza

 

Agree with most of this apart from the not getting my stack in early in a tournament. You say you find yourself playing "anti-poker", not getting your stack in the middle and folding big hands and yet at the same time you say that you like to raise with suited connectors and "stack someone". Also in the paragraph afterwards you say that there are lots of chips to be hoovered up early in a tournament due to other players errors.

You have to try and get the balance of aggression correct - a "controlled aggression" if you like. Yes you want to try and preserve your tournament life as long as possible after all the longer you survive then the more money you win but at the same time you need to give yourself as good a chance as possible of accumulating enough chips to be able to make the survival process that little bit easier.

If i know i have the best hand and that my opponent will chase a draw even if he is not getting the correct odds to do so then i will have no hesitation in getting my chips into the middle and forcing my opponent to make a decision with his tournament life on the line even early in a tournament. Yes people do overplay hands a lot and thats where you need to learn the control, being able to recognize when sometimes the big hands arent always the best hands and even more importantly being able to lay them down - thats what a lot of players struggle with.

you say you sound like you are advocating calling a lot and being passive - i feel that there is nothing wrong with that, especially early in a tournament when the blind levels are still very small compared to stack sizes providing you have the tools in your game to extract some of the "loose chips" from your opponents and that you have the gears to be able to change at any given moment when an opportunity arises to increase your stack.
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