KK final table to raise/re raise

[TightEnd]

£150 freezeout, 50 runners


8 left

blinds 3,000-6,000


I am in SB with KK, with 40,000 chips


Kevin "Lovejoy" O Leary, big chipleader with 80,000, raises to 16,000 UTG

Tight lady player comes over the top all in for 49,000 total

Action is on me in SB


Shallow chips, quickish 25 minute clock, usual payout structure...on this decision is the difference between £220 for 8th and potentially £1200 for 2nd, £2300 for first to give you an idea


Push or a rare time to fold KK?

[TightEnd]

the 2 shortstacks with 15,000 and 22,000 are on my direct right and hit the blinds again before I do. Near the beginning of the current level.

[Newmanseye]

Get them in and dont let the  and  scare you away.

Honestly though, How can you post here, chances are the tight lady has just came across a big ace and its time to push with it, I would never fold premium at this stage.

[TightEnd]

Your first instinct from the way she pushes and the intonation of her voice is that she has got AA. This is a strong relaible powerful nagging gut feeling.

This is the first time she has reraised all night and you've played with her a lot over many months

She is 3rd in chips.

4 players are going to get eaten alive by the blinds before you do.


Call?

[ifm]

Looks to me like you convinced yourself she had aces, folded and was shown QQ.

[Nem]

All in baby

[TightEnd]

No Ian I went against my instinct because of the shallowness of the stacks and wanting to win the thing, called and was shown AA after Lovejoy passed AK.


 

I am fascinated by the reliability of one's first gut instinct, and how this can be honed over time


It clearly wasn't a fold here, but I was sorely tempted.

[Newmanseye]

Its a hell of a fold tighty, but if your gut says fold then its a good play, when I see queens and Kings and my gut says fold I rarely listen ( i usually wish i had afterwards ) but If you are good enough to get away from them then well played mate.

Thats the poker opinion.

Business decision head on now.

Fold the kings and make the money, go hyper aggressive once you are passed the bubble and play to win.

I guess you went with the business decision??

[ifm]

I think you made the right decision, do you think Lovejoy would have called had you passed?

[TightEnd]

No as i said above I called, going against the "laddering" up the final table argument and taking a shot to double up and likely secure a top 3 place


Honestly 100% I knew in my heart of hearts I was beat before I did so, but went against that


Lovejoy would have called for sure.

[totalise]

why is this clearly NOT a fold?

seems like (acording to you) everything points to you being beat, the tone of the voice, the lack of previous raises, it all rests on how likely she would display the same emotions with QQ/JJ/AK etc. If she wouldn't, it seems like it makes it a clear fold, not a clear call.

You should never throw KK away in this spot against an unknown , but I dont see the big deal with throwing KK away if the read is reliable enough, its only a hand that has X% equity vs an opponents range , if her range is AA only, then the equity is bad. Hand strength is pretty much relative to that of the opponent, not strong according to some back-page chart.

I dont know how much of a results orientation there is going on though, its easy to think "hmm, she might have AA here" at the time, and then after the event think "man I was 100% sure she had AA and called anyways" just because she happened to have it this time.

I dont think I'd ever be able to read/know someone well enough to throw away KK in this spot given the meagre action (ive done it in cash games enough times, but the action there is more then bet/push) so I'd never fold, but if you are being honest and the read/knowledge of opponent IS strong enough, then folding here is clearly the best play.

[TightEnd]

why is this clearly NOT a fold?

seems like (acording to you) everything points to you being beat, the tone of the voice, the lack of previous raises, it all rests on how likely she would display the same emotions with QQ/JJ/AK etc. If she wouldn't, it seems like it makes it a clear fold, not a clear call.

You should never throw KK away in this spot against an unknown , but I dont see the big deal with throwing KK away if the read is reliable enough, its only a hand that has X% equity vs an opponents range , if her range is AA only, then the equity is bad. Hand strength is pretty much relative to that of the opponent, not strong according to some back-page chart.

I dont know how much of a results orientation there is going on though, its easy to think "hmm, she might have AA here" at the time, and then after the event think "man I was 100% sure she had AA and called anyways" just because she happened to have it this time.

I dont think I'd ever be able to read/know someone well enough to throw away KK in this spot given the meagre action (ive done it in cash games enough times, but the action there is more then bet/push) so I'd never fold, but if you are being honest and the read/knowledge of opponent IS strong enough, then folding here is clearly the best play.

this was the sort of stuff I was getting at.

[totalise]

I think the obvious counter to all that is the fact that its pretty hard (in my eyes impossible!) to be so certain that she will have AA here given the minimal action, and the fact that she did have AA this time is swaying your judgement a little, but only you can know if that is true or false.. I would never be confident enough in my knowledge of others to give them AA only in this spot, but that doesn't mean much as I'm a shitty live player

[Newportlad]

I dont think i can pass here.  I would be hoping that tight lady had AK (though suspecting AA) and that UTG had JJ or QQ.
I suppose this is the sort of situation that separates the good players from the great players.
Its a learning experience though, and next time you might well pass.

[Royal Flush]

I dont think i can pass here.  I would be hoping that tight lady had AK (though suspecting AA) and that UTG had JJ or QQ.
I suppose this is the sort of situation that separates the good players from the great players.
Its a learning experience though, and next time you might well pass.

The great players call....