O/T 9/11 conspiracy theories

[The Baron]

I find it fascinating yet ultimately sad, that guys are using their old job title to make money from such a tragedy.

[boldie]

Right, I can see quite a few people are mixing certain things up.

first of all the "Euro thing" someone mentioned. Yes, Opec decided in 1971 that all oil sold anywhere around the world HAS TO BE sold in Dollars. Iraq decided that they wanted their Dollar account from the "oil for food" program switched to a Euro nominated account. They were laughed at at the time as the euro was worth 80cents to the dollar. Howveer in 2001 the Euro shot up in value and Iraq now got more money out of it. Iran followed suit and also changed their dollar nominated account for trade into a euro nominated account. North Korea then decided to ONLY TRADE IN EURO'S no matter what it sold.

Venezuela's president Hugo Chavez (President of Opec at the time and not too popular with the US) then put it on the agenda for the next OPEC meeting that oil etc would henceforth be traded in Euro's and not in dollars. This was on the agenda before the US went to war with Iraq.

Now, if you know anything about basic economics you will understand supply and demand. IF ALL OIL AND GAS is traded in euro's that means all the nations banks will have to get rid of their dollars and buy euro's. This would be disastrous for the US economy. It would mean they would have another massive recession but no way to get out of it (after all in 1929 it was the strong dollar that got them out of it).

This is probably one of the reasons why the US went to war with Iraq and toppled Saddam. It had very little to do with the oil itsself but it had everything to do with the US economy being harmed.

HOWEVER...this has nothing to do with what happened on 9-11. 9-11 has suited the neo cons terribly well but that is mainl;y because they know how to play on people's fears. If America itsself had been responsible for it they wouldn't be able to cover it up as there are too many people looking at such an event these days. It has been analyzed over and over again and, as you would expect in any accident investigation, discrepancies will always be found. The Pentagon attack being the obvious example.
To accuse any government (even one as despicable (IMO) as Bush' administration) of the execution of several thousands of it's own citizens takes hard evidence. And untill you can supply this I would strongly suggest you keep your (fairly offensive) opinions to yourself. It mainly shows a tremendous ignorance on your part when you claim it was an inside job but you can't supply any proof of it.

Bush and Co. (including Blair) have used 9-11 in a dispicable way to further their own agenda, there is very little doubt about this IMO, and they should be ashamed of themselves for doing this. Howveer there is a big difference between that and the cold blooded murder of 5000 of your own citizens (assuming it was all a conspiracy then you have to add all the people on the plane aswell, and the plane from which we have tape recordings about what happened..well, I guess those people were actors who were later executed..afterall if you claim there was no plane crash then the people who werte supposedly on the plane had to have been executed, right? otherwise they would have been found)

Just my opinion of course.

[Nem]

Sorry to break it to you guys, but I think I have found proof to back up the idiotic conspiracy theorists.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=56836&mesg_id=56836

[WellChief]

Sorry to break it to you guys, but I think I have found proof to back up the idiotic conspiracy theorists.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=56836&mesg_id=56836

   That's one of the most ridiculous things i've ever seen, surely its a spoof.

[Nem]

Sorry to break it to you guys, but I think I have found proof to back up the idiotic conspiracy theorists.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=56836&mesg_id=56836

   That's one of the most ridiculous things i've ever seen, surely its a spoof.

Only in America

[BigTomatoes]

there is obviously something fishy about the whole thing. and definitely a few questions which need answered.

 1. what caused wtc building 7 to collapse ? - it wasnt hit by a plane , had isolated fires, yet collapsed in freefall time into its own footprint, only 3 steel built buildings have collapsed in history due to fire , the 2 towers and wtc 7

 2 fires from jet fuel do not burn high enough temperatures to melt steel , look at other skyscrapers which have burned for longer periods yet survived, wtc 5 and the skyscraper in Madrid which had an inferno for almost 3 days yet didnt collapse.

The steel girders in the TT were softened by the blaze not melted, The outer wall support girders were fitted in to place but never bolted as was the original design.

The towers collapsed due to the outer beam girders not being bolted in place, if they had been there is a strong chance that the buildings would have survived.

billy this is the most ridiculous post on this thread

 i dont know where you got this information from but do you really believe the biggest buildings in history had an outer frame which wasnt bolted into place ?

 the buildings stood for decades , were designed to withstand hurricanes , bombs , plane crashes , earthquakes etc.

 ever heard of building control ?

 do you honestly believe that building would be passed safe and fit for tens of thousands of people to use daily if its very support collumns didnt even have bolts in place ?

 c'mon mate

[BigTomatoes]

Sorry to break it to you guys, but I think I have found proof to back up the idiotic conspiracy theorists.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=56836&mesg_id=56836

  there you have it , conclusive proof.

 what a dummy

[boldie]

Sorry to break it to you guys, but I think I have found proof to back up the idiotic conspiracy theorists.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=56836&mesg_id=56836

   That's one of the most ridiculous things i've ever seen, surely its a spoof.

Only in America

yikes...and i bet ya he's serious

[patman]

good post bolt on the oil front...also worth mentioning the russian premier actively raised the idea of going euro for oil..the us reacted with condemnation of russia and democracy there...go figure. it was also not widely reported in the western press although it is a strong negotiating card that has.
also cuban fields are showing promise and indian firms as well as venezuelan companies are taking licences...amreican firms are barred.

this will be a good test of the anti cuba stance in the us..if there are solid finds it`ll collapse fairly quick as the oil and construction firms power runs straight to the oval office make no mistake.

so we have iraq aside who are us controlled. iran , russia, venezue and possibly depending on field finds...cuba and china who can all decide not to use dollars and who are not particularly pro usa....

the usa economy would suffer..to what extent is open to debate but it would not be insignificant

the real point is to what end will the usa mix politics to use military or economic  force against these nations under a banner of anti terror or pro democracy/human rights concerns.

it has happened before  - it will happen again...but who picks up the pieces..

oil , construction and power balance do not a peaceful world make..

ps supa monkey is correct in his statement on steel...it does nto ahve to melt to collapse. all it has to do is go beyond its yield strength and lose its elasticity..at this point it can collapse without warning, particularly in a structure that is under tension or is bolted together.
alternatively heat at about 450-650 degrees can effect its grain structure and cause certain types of steel to undergo recrystillisation..thus losing its inherent strength

[AlrightJack]

Don't get Blonde bogged down with conspiracy theory rubbish. It happened on the betfair forum a few years ago and made certain boards unvisitable. Most conspiracy theorists have an agenda of their own and it is usually hate fuelled, often with rascist tendencies. Their threories lack any kind of balance and their argumments are constructed in a way that make them believable, for the gullibe to fall for. The underlying motive of most conspiracy theorists is to promote their own political perspective and that in itself is a conspiracy.

This thread will end in tears.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0621-02.htm

[patman]

Don't get Blonde bogged down with conspiracy theory rubbish. It happened on the betfair forum a few years ago and made certain boards unvisitable. Most conspiracy theorists have an agenda of their own and it is usually hate fuelled, often with rascist tendencies. Their threories lack any kind of balance and their argumments are constructed in a way that make them believable, for the gullibe to fall for. The underlying motive of most conspiracy theorists is to promote their own political perspective and that in itself is a conspiracy.

This thread will end in tears.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0621-02.htm

as long as people retain perspective, decency and an ability to stand back and realise  its just a debate i see no reason why it shouldnt potter along til sark posts a brain freezing monment and the thread sinks away

thats why i like this forum...you can always agree to differ without the need to delete a thread...and most of the mods do a great job....apart from that rod paradise but hes further out than pluto..which by the way isnt a real planet..

[BigTomatoes]

 

 people need to debate these issues and ask questions of people in power regardless of their personal opinions

 free speech is a right of people in a democratic society and we need to exercise our rights because certain things are happening in national and international politics which seek to reduce or abolish our rights , whether it be free speech or our right to protest or others , in my opinion political agendas pose more threat to our freedoms than many other things happening in the world at the minute.

[Scottish Dave]

well, there you have it.. definitive proof!

Did i say i was posting proof???

this is an open forum and i posted my opinon, maybe you should post something on the subject, and try to debate my opinion instead if attacking someone elses views?

Welcome back.....

T, another classic post.

Cheers mate, good to be back

How was the bash...and nice Blue Top, must have took a few FPP's

[Scottish Dave]

People don't think about just how many people would have to be involved in a conspiracy like this.

Precisely mate, thats the frightening thing!

Billy - the building fell cos thats what the new world order and the guy that owned the TT (who funnily enough purchased WTC7, 2 weeks before it to go with his list of owned WTC buildings, and had them all re-insured for Billions of dollars) wanted to happen.

Its a frightening world we live in today

[BigTomatoes]

 Dave is talking about Larry Silverstein.

 Owner of the WTC who is on film saying they decide to '' pull it '' - talking about WTC building 7

 pull is a term used in the demolition business meaning to bring a building down by explosives demolition