Wrong Forum

[Decider]

Hello Rod,

Should we start a seperate thread to discuss it?

I don't see that there is anything wrong with asking people to refrain from using the term Jock to describe the people of Scotland, perhaps it merits a separate thread. I've mentiioned it a couple of times now and feel that should be enough really. I understand that you are trying to put the subject to bed, but lets put it to bed after we get buyin that it's unnacceptable and uncomfortable reading.

Cheers,

Eoan

Can we also avoid the term "frogs", "krauts" and "yanks" in that case?

Good idea. I don't see why not. I don't feel the need to describe people with those words, so it won't really be an issue for me.

When I was growing up in the West Of Scotland there were many words that you picked up in the playground, everyone else was saying them and as a kid it becomes part of the vocabulary, at least through primary school anyway. As we get older and more mature we gradually realise the offence we are causing and eliminate the words (unfortunately not everone does). This is no different and isn't a difficult thing to achieve.

[RED-DOG]

Hello Rod,

Should we start a seperate thread to discuss it?

I don't see that there is anything wrong with asking people to refrain from using the term Jock to describe the people of Scotland, perhaps it merits a separate thread. I've mentiioned it a couple of times now and feel that should be enough really. I understand that you are trying to put the subject to bed, but lets put it to bed after we get buyin that it's unnacceptable and uncomfortable reading.

Cheers,

Eoan

Is it ok for a Scot's friends to call him Jock? And didn't the Scottish quiz or footy team call themselves Jocks?

I am a Gypsy and very proud of it, but the term Gypsy can be used both in a complimentary or a derogatory fashion.

You don't have to be that clever to know which is which.

[Scottish Dave]

I think if decider has a gripe with this issue and feels he wants to discuss it with a mod thats up to him, and will then go to PM for further discussion.

Thats what the Mods are for guys.

[mikkyT]

Im doing it again, sorry guys I dont want to be devils advocate anymore LOL!

Nobody here IMO uses the term jock offensively... but I still think there is a case. Its all about context. Do we go "totally PC" and ban it along with other terms of racial description? Its a debate I've put myself in now but do I really want to be having it... lol.

[Decider]

TBH it's been going on so long - and been used so repeatedly by Scots that I don't think it can be done away with. As I've family and friends known as Jock I've trouble seeing anything wrong in it.

If it seriously upsets you to the extent you want to ban what is normally used as a positive term on the board, you have a case.

PM me and it will be raised, as a member of "The Jocks" ( a team renamed by the Scots in the team at BB3) I'd be upset that the joking waas removed.

True, it's gone on so long on the forum that it's become acceptable, but it's not acceptable.

I don't think I need to PM you on this, I have made my point fairly clear although I could PM you if you wish.

I am not asking and have not asked for people to be banned for using the term "Jock", I am simply pointing out that it is offensive and I'm trying to raise awareness in the hope that people will consider their use of the term in future and perhaps self-regulate.

We are trying to create an inclusive foruim, that forum includes Scots and not all Scots will accept being called a Jock.

[MrMoves]

It offends some, not others. Personally, I think its harmless but it winds my (ex)wife up no end. TBH I do think it on a par with other racially descriptive terms... but thats just me.

I get what mrmoves is saying.... but personally I would never say frogs or krauts! Or paddys or ..... I'll stop there because I think they are the only ones on the borderline. Why should we differenciate between these and the ones we *know* we shouldnt say?

Most people are hypocritical about the "labels" that are attached to some nationalities.  I wonder how many Scots have been offended at "jock" only to dish out something similar to a Frenchman or a German or an American?

Personally, I don't give a toss what people call me.  Australian friends call me Pom and Americans call me Limey.

Maybe I'm just not as hyper-sensitive as some?

[mikkyT]

Hello Rod,

Should we start a seperate thread to discuss it?

I don't see that there is anything wrong with asking people to refrain from using the term Jock to describe the people of Scotland, perhaps it merits a separate thread. I've mentiioned it a couple of times now and feel that should be enough really. I understand that you are trying to put the subject to bed, but lets put it to bed after we get buyin that it's unnacceptable and uncomfortable reading.

Cheers,

Eoan

Is it ok for a Scot's friends to call him Jock? And didn't the Scottish quiz or footy team call themselves Jocks?

I am a Gypsy and very proud of it, but the term Gypsy can be used both in a complimentary or a derogatory fashion.

You don't have to be that clever to know which is which.

 

[Decider]

It offends some, not others. Personally, I think its harmless but it winds my (ex)wife up no end. TBH I do think it on a par with other racially descriptive terms... but thats just me.

I get what mrmoves is saying.... but personally I would never say frogs or krauts! Or paddys or ..... I'll stop there because I think they are the only ones on the borderline. Why should we differenciate between these and the ones we *know* we shouldnt say?

Most people are hypocritical about the "labels" that are attached to some nationalities.  I wonder how many Scots have been offended at "jock" only to dish out something similar to a Frenchman or a German or an American?

Personally, I don't give a toss what people call me.  Australian friends call me Pom and Americans call me Limey.

Maybe I'm just not as hyper-sensitive as some?

In this case, two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm not trying to be hyper-sensitve here, we are Scots, so call us Scots, problem solved. It's not difficult. It's very easy for a new Scottish member to visit the forum and see the term Jock being branded around and take it out of context, or what people consiider the context they posted it in. As soon as they do, you'll get a flame war, or the person will simply leave. Either way, it's no good for the Blonde name.

[MrMoves]

It offends some, not others. Personally, I think its harmless but it winds my (ex)wife up no end. TBH I do think it on a par with other racially descriptive terms... but thats just me.

I get what mrmoves is saying.... but personally I would never say frogs or krauts! Or paddys or ..... I'll stop there because I think they are the only ones on the borderline. Why should we differenciate between these and the ones we *know* we shouldnt say?

Most people are hypocritical about the "labels" that are attached to some nationalities.  I wonder how many Scots have been offended at "jock" only to dish out something similar to a Frenchman or a German or an American?

Personally, I don't give a toss what people call me.  Australian friends call me Pom and Americans call me Limey.

Maybe I'm just not as hyper-sensitive as some?

I'm not trying to be hyper-sensitve here, we are Scots, so call us Scots, problem solved. It's not difficult. It's very easy for a new Scottish member to visit the forum and see the term Jock being branded around and take it out of context, or what people consiider the context they posted it in. As soon as they do, you'll get a flame war, or the person will simply leave. Either way, it's no good for the Blonde name.

I have no problem with that.  But, all things being equal, that would mean the correct terms be used for all nationalities.

...and the Mods think they're busy now!   

[Rod Paradise]

TBH it's been going on so long - and been used so repeatedly by Scots that I don't think it can be done away with. As I've family and friends known as Jock I've trouble seeing anything wrong in it.

If it seriously upsets you to the extent you want to ban what is normally used as a positive term on the board, you have a case.

PM me and it will be raised, as a member of "The Jocks" ( a team renamed by the Scots in the team at BB3) I'd be upset that the joking waas removed.

True, it's gone on so long on the forum that it's become acceptable, but it's not acceptable.

I don't think I need to PM you on this, I have made my point fairly clear although I could PM you if you wish.

I am not asking and have not asked for people to be banned for using the term "Jock", I am simply pointing out that it is offensive and I'm trying to raise awareness in the hope that people will consider their use of the term in future and perhaps self-regulate.

We are trying to create an inclusive foruim, that forum includes Scots and not all Scots will accept being called a Jock.

It does cause a problem though - because how far are things taken. As you say Blonde is inclusive. It is, so we have to think about this. I'll send you links to the furore the arose from a similar call from someone offended by Flushy being called gay, I'd hope we could go with common sense. I've  mates who can call me a fat baldy f****** b****** - and I'll not be offended. I know other people who offend me by speaking to me - i hope as an inclusive forum of mates we can learn the difference between abuse and ribbing.

[Decider]

It offends some, not others. Personally, I think its harmless but it winds my (ex)wife up no end. TBH I do think it on a par with other racially descriptive terms... but thats just me.

I get what mrmoves is saying.... but personally I would never say frogs or krauts! Or paddys or ..... I'll stop there because I think they are the only ones on the borderline. Why should we differenciate between these and the ones we *know* we shouldnt say?

Most people are hypocritical about the "labels" that are attached to some nationalities.  I wonder how many Scots have been offended at "jock" only to dish out something similar to a Frenchman or a German or an American?

Personally, I don't give a toss what people call me.  Australian friends call me Pom and Americans call me Limey.

Maybe I'm just not as hyper-sensitive as some?

I'm not trying to be hyper-sensitve here, we are Scots, so call us Scots, problem solved. It's not difficult. It's very easy for a new Scottish member to visit the forum and see the term Jock being branded around and take it out of context, or what people consiider the context they posted it in. As soon as they do, you'll get a flame war, or the person will simply leave. Either way, it's no good for the Blonde name.

I have no problem with that.  But, all things being equal, that would mean the correct terms be used for all nationalities.

...and the Mods think they're busy now!   

That'd be excellent mate.

[mikkyT]

No more scouser, taffy, geordie, yank....

[totalise]

No more scouser, taffy, geordie, yank....

fish, donkey....

[Rod Paradise]

It offends some, not others. Personally, I think its harmless but it winds my (ex)wife up no end. TBH I do think it on a par with other racially descriptive terms... but thats just me.

I get what mrmoves is saying.... but personally I would never say frogs or krauts! Or paddys or ..... I'll stop there because I think they are the only ones on the borderline. Why should we differenciate between these and the ones we *know* we shouldnt say?

Most people are hypocritical about the "labels" that are attached to some nationalities.  I wonder how many Scots have been offended at "jock" only to dish out something similar to a Frenchman or a German or an American?

Personally, I don't give a toss what people call me.  Australian friends call me Pom and Americans call me Limey.

Maybe I'm just not as hyper-sensitive as some?

I'm not trying to be hyper-sensitve here, we are Scots, so call us Scots, problem solved. It's not difficult. It's very easy for a new Scottish member to visit the forum and see the term Jock being branded around and take it out of context, or what people consiider the context they posted it in. As soon as they do, you'll get a flame war, or the person will simply leave. Either way, it's no good for the Blonde name.

I have no problem with that.  But, all things being equal, that would mean the correct terms be used for all nationalities.

...and the Mods think they're busy now!   

That'd be excellent mate.

No - it wouldn't. It will also be used by people with axes to grind against blonde to try and disrupt the board. It would really help things if you'd rise above it. I'm sure as folks know you don't like it it will be avoided to you. It does place the board in an impossible position because we can't abolish everythin that offends every member.

[Decider]

TBH it's been going on so long - and been used so repeatedly by Scots that I don't think it can be done away with. As I've family and friends known as Jock I've trouble seeing anything wrong in it.

If it seriously upsets you to the extent you want to ban what is normally used as a positive term on the board, you have a case.

PM me and it will be raised, as a member of "The Jocks" ( a team renamed by the Scots in the team at BB3) I'd be upset that the joking waas removed.

True, it's gone on so long on the forum that it's become acceptable, but it's not acceptable.

I don't think I need to PM you on this, I have made my point fairly clear although I could PM you if you wish.

I am not asking and have not asked for people to be banned for using the term "Jock", I am simply pointing out that it is offensive and I'm trying to raise awareness in the hope that people will consider their use of the term in future and perhaps self-regulate.

We are trying to create an inclusive foruim, that forum includes Scots and not all Scots will accept being called a Jock.

It does cause a problem though - because how far are things taken. As you say Blonde is inclusive. It is, so we have to think about this. I'll send you links to the furore the arose from a similar call from someone offended by Flushy being called gay, I'd hope we could go with common sense. I've  mates who can call me a fat baldy f****** b****** - and I'll not be offended. I know other people who offend me by speaking to me - i hope as an inclusive forum of mates we can learn the difference between abuse and ribbing.

I have mates that call me names too ( not often :-) ), I don't see the connection here. There is a difference between friends calling each other names and it being generally accepted that people can use this term to describe an entire nations people. It's well known that it's use is pejorative. People that were not aware of that usually stop using the word after they find out.