Late play in MTT - Pretty funny from my point of view!

[Timaloy]

-----HAND 3------
Game #3497371844: Hold'em NL (800/1600) - 2006/09/24 - 12:49:33 (UK)
Table "Special £500 GTD 3511764 - 1" Seat 8 is the button.
Seat 1: Retttte (21858.50 in chips)
Seat 2: Mic141020 (46976.50 in chips)
Seat 4: natboy (75355 in chips)
Seat 8: Mousepimp (1310 in chips)
Retttte: posts the ante 200
Mic141020: posts the ante 200
natboy: posts the ante 200
Mousepimp: posts the ante 200
Retttte: posts small blind 800
Mic141020: posts big blind 1600
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Mousepimp [ ]
natboy: folds
Mousepimp: is all-in 1110
Retttte: raises to 21658.50 and is all-in
Mic141020: calls 20058.50
----- FLOP ----- [ ]
----- TURN ----- [ ][]
----- RIVER ----- [ ][]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Retttte: shows [ ] (A Pair of Fours, Ace high)
Mic141020: shows [Ah ] (Two Pairs, Fives and Fours, Ace high)
Mousepimp: shows [ ] (Two Pairs, Queens and Fours, King high)
Mic141020 collects 41097 from Side pot #1
Mousepimp collects 4130 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 45227 Main pot 4130 Side pot #1 41097 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: Retttte (small blind) showed [ ] and lost
Seat 2: Mic141020 (big blind) showed [Ah ] and won (41097) with Two Pairs, Fives and Fours, Ace high
Seat 4: natboy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Mousepimp (button) showed [ ] and won (4130) with Two Pairs, Queens and Fours, King high

This is one of the strangest plays I have seen, at this stage of a MTT, can't figure out what he could be thinking to justify such a insane move.

[boldie]

yeah to call that all in with A5 is nuts.

[Royal Flush]

So is the re-raise with A3!!!


How come you are so short?

[NoflopsHomer]

yeah to call that all in with A5 is nuts.

Go see the Ramzi vs Mel Judah hand from day 1b at the London EPT. Now THAT's sick.

[Royal Flush]

yeah to call that all in with A5 is nuts.

Go see the Ramzi vs Mel Judah hand from day 1b at the London EPT. Now THAT's sick.

Ramzi is a sick puppy though.

[hutchylad]

Yea, I definatly cannot understand the plays, its not as if they were short stacked, theres no reasonable explanation!

[mjrevie]

Right, i'm totally confused and probably about to make a total idiot of myself but here goes.

Hero is all in for less than the blind. So for Rette to think he is ahead with A3 is not ridicolous in my opinion, Hero could be pushing with anything from J2+. He then tries to isolate the all in player by raising (all in was prob too much), again not a bad move as his A3 is prob fav heads up with all in player but not likely to be fav in a multi-way. Mic might think that Rette is trying to isolate the BB by raising with a marginal hand. If i was Mic, I would put Rette on anything from QT+. Mic might think his ace high is best in this situation and so calls. I wouldn't have called, but i can see the logic in it.

Maybe i'm missing something but i really dont see it as being a bad play on either players parts. A bit loose, but not crazy. The A3 raiser was isolating, the A5 player thought he was ahead so called. Also the A5 player didnt care about the hreo. The side pot was 10x what the main pot was so all he really cared about was what Rette was going all in with, for all he cared the hero could have aces as the main pot was isignificant.

Maybe i'm having a  and if my reasoning is flawed, can someone come down and hit me over the head with a hammer. Would be intersted in understanding whats wrong with the above.

[boldie]

Right, i'm totally confused and probably about to make a total idiot of myself but here goes.

Hero is all in for less than the blind. So for Rette to think he is ahead with A3 is not ridicolous in my opinion, Hero could be pushing with anything from J2+. He then tries to isolate the all in player by raising (all in was prob too much), again not a bad move as his A3 is prob fav heads up with all in player but not likely to be fav in a multi-way. Mic might think that Rette is trying to isolate the BB by raising with a marginal hand. If i was Mic, I would put Rette on anything from QT+. Mic might think his ace high is best in this situation and so calls. I wouldn't have called, but i can see the logic in it.

Maybe i'm missing something but i really dont see it as being a bad play on either players parts. A bit loose, but not crazy. The A3 raiser was isolating, the A5 player thought he was ahead so called. Also the A5 player didnt care about the hreo. The side pot was 10x what the main pot was so all he really cared about was what Rette was going all in with, for all he cared the hero could have aces as the main pot was isignificant.

Maybe i'm having a  and if my reasoning is flawed, can someone come down and hit me over the head with a hammer. Would be intersted in understanding whats wrong with the above.

you are right of course...however calling for half your stack with that hand is not solid play. If the A5 guy was thinking this he simply overthought the issue IMO. If I am at the table and some shortstack moves all in and someone with half my chips then raises that I simply have to give him some credit and the 5 kicker is the problem IMO.

[mjrevie]

you are right of course...however calling for half your stack with that hand is not solid play. If the A5 guy was thinking this he simply overthought the issue IMO. If I am at the table and some shortstack moves all in and someone with half my chips then raises that I simply have to give him some credit and the 5 kicker is the problem IMO.

I agree. I think its very loose play by the caller and its definitely not the play i would make, but i dont think its pure folly. The raiser could have raised less to define his hand and didnt need to risk all his chips with A3.

Like people say a lot on here, is there people on another forum discussing how great a call this was because of the way he read it and instead of criticising the A5 guy for the call, criticising the hero for allowing themselves to get too short that they are almost automatically all in and Rette for pushing with A3 when a 4x raise would probably have had the same effect of defining his hand? This forum has helped me see how others play certain hands and that there is some logic behind most people's play.

[boldie]

oh there's no doubt there's logic behind the way most people play.

and indeed..to be down to that little in chips is desperate but I am assuming that was because of a beat (for otherwise it would be truly stupendously badto only have that amount of chips left

[Teacake]

I really can't get my head round this, I mean why would you call yourself Mousepimp FFS 

[Timaloy]

I really can't get my head round this, I mean why would you call yourself Mousepimp FFS 

I can not be held responsible, intoxicating substances where involved during the registration process... 

[mikkyT]

Right, i'm totally confused and probably about to make a total idiot of myself but here goes.

Hero is all in for less than the blind. So for Rette to think he is ahead with A3 is not ridicolous in my opinion, Hero could be pushing with anything from J2+. He then tries to isolate the all in player by raising (all in was prob too much), again not a bad move as his A3 is prob fav heads up with all in player but not likely to be fav in a multi-way. Mic might think that Rette is trying to isolate the BB by raising with a marginal hand. If i was Mic, I would put Rette on anything from QT+. Mic might think his ace high is best in this situation and so calls. I wouldn't have called, but i can see the logic in it.

Maybe i'm missing something but i really dont see it as being a bad play on either players parts. A bit loose, but not crazy. The A3 raiser was isolating, the A5 player thought he was ahead so called. Also the A5 player didnt care about the hreo. The side pot was 10x what the main pot was so all he really cared about was what Rette was going all in with, for all he cared the hero could have aces as the main pot was isignificant.

Maybe i'm having a  and if my reasoning is flawed, can someone come down and hit me over the head with a hammer. Would be intersted in understanding whats wrong with the above.

Sorry, none of that makes sense (apart from the inital re-raise with A3) when you consider that at the late stage of a tourney for two big stacks to come together in such an obscene fashion with such shitty hands! Regardless if he thinks his A5 is ahead at that time, do you really want to put your whole tournament on the line with that hand? No, you fold, let them go heads up and find another spot.

[mikkyT]

Right, i'm totally confused and probably about to make a total idiot of myself but here goes.

Hero is all in for less than the blind. So for Rette to think he is ahead with A3 is not ridicolous in my opinion, Hero could be pushing with anything from J2+. He then tries to isolate the all in player by raising (all in was prob too much), again not a bad move as his A3 is prob fav heads up with all in player but not likely to be fav in a multi-way. Mic might think that Rette is trying to isolate the BB by raising with a marginal hand. If i was Mic, I would put Rette on anything from QT+. Mic might think his ace high is best in this situation and so calls. I wouldn't have called, but i can see the logic in it.

Maybe i'm missing something but i really dont see it as being a bad play on either players parts. A bit loose, but not crazy. The A3 raiser was isolating, the A5 player thought he was ahead so called. Also the A5 player didnt care about the hreo. The side pot was 10x what the main pot was so all he really cared about was what Rette was going all in with, for all he cared the hero could have aces as the main pot was isignificant.

Maybe i'm having a  and if my reasoning is flawed, can someone come down and hit me over the head with a hammer. Would be intersted in understanding whats wrong with the above.

Sorry, none of that makes sense (apart from the inital re-raise with A3) when you consider that at the late stage of a tourney for two big stacks to come together in such an obscene fashion with such shitty hands! Regardless if he thinks his A5 is ahead at that time, do you really want to put your whole tournament on the line with that hand? No, you fold, let them go heads up and find another spot.

Just looked at the chip counts again. A5 boy had double A3 guys stack. I take that back... still a bit crazy though.

[JungleCat03]

i think it's a rubbish call with A5. Say the isolator is shipping with any ace, any pair except QQ KK AA, KTs+,KTo+, QTo+, QTs+, ive even pulled out AK to give him credit for a smaller raise.

There's no reason to think his range is any wider than that and i think that is a pretty reasonable range for him to have. If anything, it may well be slightly tighter.

 A5 has 43% equity against that range.

There's an overlay in the pot but it's not enough to justify calling. If that range is accurate, then he'll average 19719 chips after the hand is over, after he's put in 20058. With his stack size, he really doesn't need to be making -ev plays.

There is the additional bonus that he has basically warned people off stealing his big blind by showing he is prepared to gamble large portions of his chips if he is raised, but i think the risk he takes with 50% of his stack here is not worth it.