A question for you......

[tikay]

No Limit Tournament Poker.

Geezer goes all-in.

Dealer immediately counts & announces the size of the bet, without being asked by anyone. Right or wrong? And why?

I've sat at many a table where this has happened & several knowledgeable players - Carlio Citrone springs to mind - have gone loopy.

What's the thinking, the logic, the rights & wrongs?

[ACE2M]

It's wrong, it's fine if they ask would you like me to count it? But offering a player more information than he may think to gather under his own initiative is offering a poorer player a better chance to make a good decision.

[AndrewT]

The only argument against it is so that pre-internet poker players can't pull strokes against the kids such as building mountains of lower-denomination chips with which to make their bets appear bigger than they actually are.

Cross-reference the players who protest with players who 'make full use of the rules' when playing and you'll get a tight little Venn diagram.

[Simon Galloway2]

The dealer shouldn't do anything at all unsolicited.  It can go quite some way towards inducing (unwanted) calls.  Of course, on request, the dealer should count the chips and announce.

[Newmanseye]

Totally wrong, I know when I was dealing when someone gors all in You ask if they want a count, but never automatically count the all-in amount.

To be honest though I think it may be time for a change and enforce a rule whereby all in amounts should be counted when the chips are in, similar to how things are online. It would help stop people "cheating" by announcing they are all in for more than they have, which is known to happen.

Just a thought.

[The Camel]

The dealer shouldn't do anything at all unsolicited.  It can go quite some way towards inducing (unwanted) calls.  Of course, on request, the dealer should count the chips and announce.

The only time I've got genuinely angry at the table was during a big tournament at Walsall once. I was very short stacked and about to take the big blind next hand..

The dealer just stopped dealing. On asking why he replied:

"There's a break in 30 seconds, no point dealing another hand"

Obviously by the time I started to agrue the 30 seconds elapsed and the cardroom manager did nothing. I was beyond furious.

Dealers should deal, not think!

[boldie]

Personally I don't think the dealer should do anything that could influence someone elses desicion at the poker table. therefore unsollicited he should not announce. Without wanting to offend any dealers; Dealers at the poker table are tools and they should not do anything unless requested.

However, in just about every tourney I play the dealer will automatically announce it and I am OK with it now as I can think for myself and when I ship my chips in on a steal I will make sure there's no value in calling me. If, on the other hand, i know I will take it down I will give everyone all the value.


If all tourneys were to change however I would like the dealer to just deal the cards, get on with it and shuttit, there's one dealer at my local tourney who even stops dealing to listen to other people's conversations or stops dealing while others are ordering drinks...whenever he approaches the table I am playing at I always just want to stand up and say "No that's allright I'll deal. I might be a shit dealer but I'm a hell of a lot faster then you are"

[Snatiramas]

Never bothered me personally. Once they are over the line they ceased being mine anyway.

[tikay]

Never bothered me personally. Once they are over the line they ceased being mine anyway.

That's different. In your case, once you sit down they cease to be yours. I mean, have you ever won a Tourney of note? (Go on, get in son!).

[matt674]

I think it is wrong if the dealer does anything towards influencing the decision of the other player.

I was once playing a tournament in Blackpool when i was short stacked in the big blind. Someone had raised and i decided to take a stand with whatever two cards i had. Everyone passed round to me so i announce all in and push my chips in. My reraise wasnt really enough to get the original raiser to pass as they were getting the correct odds to call regardless of their hand, i did however have a lot of small denomination chips and so my bet may have looked bigger than it was to my opponent on the other side of the table. The original raiser started to stall and looked as though they were thinking about laying the hand down.

Just as i got my hopes up the dealer then decided to count my stack, seperate the original raise from my stack leaving the reraise as a visible stack then turn to my opponent and say - "its only another 7000 to call" and even got 3000 in chips ready to give to the original raiser in change for a 10000 chip.

needless to say i wasnt too happy when my opponent said "oh, ok then", called and proceeded to outdraw me and eliminate me from the tournament!!

[Simon Galloway2]

Dealers at the poker table are tools

Usually several of the players at final tables are tools too!!

[tikay]

I think it is wrong if the dealer does anything towards influencing the decision of the other player.

I was once playing a tournament in Blackpool when i was short stacked in the big blind. Someone had raised and i decided to take a stand with whatever two cards i had. Everyone passed round to me so i announce all in and push my chips in. My reraise wasnt really enough to get the original raiser to pass as they were getting the correct odds to call regardless of their hand, i did however have a lot of small denomination chips and so my bet may have looked bigger than it was to my opponent on the other side of the table. The original raiser started to stall and looked as though they were thinking about laying the hand down.

Just as i got my hopes up the dealer then decided to count my stack, seperate the original raise from my stack leaving the reraise as a visible stack then turn to my opponent and say - "its only another 7000 to call" and even got 3000 in chips ready to give to the original raiser in change for a 10000 chip.

needless to say i wasnt too happy when my opponent said "oh, ok then", called and proceeded to outdraw me and eliminate me from the tournament!!

Precisely. The insertion of the word "only", albeit unintentional, probably changed the guys decision.

[londonpokergirl]

Rules are changing from day to day, cardroom to cardroom

What may help a little is the guy who pushed all in , seat next to him folds instantaniously
and the next seat is staring at the chips.  The dealer notices that he is staring at the chips and puts the chips in piles to help the player count the all in stack.

Dealer announces to player what the all in amount it.

Both me and Raj said at the time its not a problem. You could see that the player was needing help in finding out what the amount was, and the dealer helped him.

I can understand that sometimes when you push all in that you don't want people to know what the exact amount is, because you maybe have a huge stack of small chips and want to make your bet look bigger than it is, but you also have to look at the situation and go with common sense.  A player is looking at the chip stack in the middle and looking at his chip stack.  Its obvious what the outcome is, the dealer just helped the player by announcing how much it was

In this situation dealer did a good job.

[tikay]

Rules are changing from day to day, cardroom to cardroom

What may help a little is the guy who pushed all in , seat next to him folds instantaniously
and the next seat is staring at the chips.  The dealer notices that he is staring at the chips and puts the chips in piles to help the player count the all in stack.

Dealer announces to player what the all in amount it.

Both me and Raj said at the time its not a problem. You could see that the player was needing help in finding out what the amount was, and the dealer helped him.

I can understand that sometimes when you push all in that you don't want people to know what the exact amount is, because you maybe have a huge stack of small chips and want to make your bet look bigger than it is, but you also have to look at the situation and go with common sense.  A player is looking at the chip stack in the middle and looking at his chip stack.  Its obvious what the outcome is, the dealer just helped the player by announcing how much it was

In this situation dealer did a good job.

I was NOT referring to any given situation Mel, it's just a general question I am trying to get right in my mind.

The question was, is it correct, or wrong, & why?

I have always been 100% dealer-supportive - but they deserve to know what the rules are, & why, so they can enforce them fairly, & with common-sense.

I don't know what the rule is, or why, & I'm trying to assess what's right. I just know tht most players are opposed to it & think it's wrong, but I'm trying to find out the whys & wherefores.

[thetank]

I don't mind it, keeps the game moving a little faster.

So the expert loses a little edge to the beginner, well I want a few beginners to win a few tournaments now and then.

When I hear the more vehement arguments against dealers sorting chips on their own initiative, I think, whatever happened to...."You gotta give action to get action"

Out the window it seems, miserable types hang on with bitter fingernails to all edges they can get. String bet string bet string bet.